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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:48 am 
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In cases where the traffic congestion is flowing like molasses and the engine is in danger of over heating I can understand the usefulness of the "Idle Stop" feature. . .especially in hot tropical climates. I imagine at times it may be easier to just ease one self's PCX forward a few feet at a time using leg power rather than start it up. :(

That being said, for me, I would prefer not to have my machine turn on and off automatically in traffic. I like to have full control over it. Traffic in my local area can be a PITA sometimes but nothing like folks living in major cities. Therefore I probably wouldn't use the feature even if I had it. In it's place Honda offers the U.S. the parking brake lock. I think I've only used that once. . .nice to have though just in case. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Has anyone retrofitted idle stop to a non idle stop scoot? Do we only need the computer and the switch at the handlebars? The engine is the same right?


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Gil wrote:
Has anyone retrofitted idle stop to a non idle stop scoot? Do we only need the computer and the switch at the handlebars? The engine is the same right?


Gil


Requires all new electronics, engine changes - entirely too expensive for what you do

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:30 pm 
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I used it twice, one of which was just to demonstrate to friends how quickly it fired off from idle. Haven't used it since. I don't stop that often on my commute so see no use for it. It does work very well however.


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Jge64 wrote:
Gil wrote:
Has anyone retrofitted idle stop to a non idle stop scoot? Do we only need the computer and the switch at the handlebars? The engine is the same right?


Gil


Requires all new electronics, engine changes - entirely too expensive for what you do



That's disappointing, it also doesn't seem like there is much MPG benefit. Any hard numbers from anyone here.

Gil

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:24 pm 
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Scooter Station did a real world comparison.

http://www.scooter-station.com/honda-pc ... e-pcx.html

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:01 pm 
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gn2 wrote:
Scooter Station did a real world comparison.

http://www.scooter-station.com/honda-pc ... e-pcx.html


Thanks for the link, very interesting that only a 3mpg (0.11l/100km) improvement with its use in the city. So it's more of a nice to have than anything else.
Glad to know that I ain't missing much.

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:53 am 
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gn2 wrote:
Scooter Station did a real world comparison.

http://www.scooter-station.com/honda-pc ... e-pcx.html



€6 is €6 :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:57 pm 
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I hardly used it. In fact, I felt it was detrimental to the battery life with so many stops and starts in the very congested traffic of Bangkok. But having said that, I am sure that rarely taking longer trips (more than 4-5 kms) played havoc on the battery life as well, being that it didn't get a good uninterrupted run too often.

It is a feature that I could have easily done without.

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:45 pm 
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I never use it. Tried a few times but in constant stop/start traffic it was a pain.

Rather they drop that feature and installed rear disc brakes instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:51 am 
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I don't use it in traffic too, doesn't make sense since you'll be moving all the time. (no matter how slow)

In Bangkok, sometimes you have wait in the intersection for 5-10 minutes waiting for the light to turn green. The idle stop make sense in this situation, you don't want to be idling for 10 mins but you wouldn't want to turn your ignition off too bcause when the lights turn suddenly green and you still need to start your scoot, all cars and bikes behind you will be blowing their horn in annoyance. That's how it is in Bangkok, everyone seems to be in a hurry and want to run you over. Most bikers don't turn their bikes off, so most are idling for 5-10 mins waiting for the lights to turn. With the dile stop feature, all you need to do is twist your throttle and your good to go.

Maybe the idle stop was created with the Asian market in mind. Might not make sense in the west or across the pond riders though.


So, i disagree of removing it as a feature because it is useful for me. Maybe remove it in models for the US/Europe. Though i would agree, better brakes are much needed upgrade too. (front ABS brake at least).

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:22 am 
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alx123 wrote:
I don't use it in traffic too, doesn't make sense since you'll be moving all the time. (no matter how slow)

In Bangkok, sometimes you have wait in the intersection for 5-10 minutes waiting for the light to turn green. The idle stop make sense in this situation, you don't want to be idling for 10 mins but you wouldn't want to turn your ignition off too bcause when the lights turn suddenly green and you still need to start your scoot, all cars and bikes behind you will be blowing their horn in annoyance. That's how it is in Bangkok, everyone seems to be in a hurry and want to run you over. Most bikers don't turn their bikes off, so most are idling for 5-10 mins waiting for the lights to turn. With the dile stop feature, all you need to do is twist your throttle and your good to go.

Maybe the idle stop was created with the Asian market in mind. Might not make sense in the west or across the pond riders though.


So, i disagree of removing it as a feature because it is useful for me. Maybe remove it in models for the US/Europe. Though i would agree, better brakes are much needed upgrade too. (front ABS brake at least).


I find it useful too. Plenty of other things to worry about.

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:54 am 
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RedBaron wrote:
I never use it. Tried a few times but in constant stop/start traffic it was a pain.

Rather they drop that feature and installed rear disc brakes instead.

My Honda sh 125 has both stop/start and rear disc.And abs.


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:52 pm 
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I drive mostly in light traffic, the idle stop works fine when I remember to use it. Not a big deal either way for me, but I think it could be annoying in certain traffic situations.


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:34 am 
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dick the den wrote:
RedBaron wrote:
I never use it. Tried a few times but in constant stop/start traffic it was a pain. Rather they drop that feature and installed rear disc brakes instead.

My Honda sh 125 has both stop/start and rear disc.And abs.
Wish the PCX did - pricing OTR in the UK is £2700 for the PCX and £3300 for the SHi (step through model), so £630 difference and I'm not sure the newer '17 SH version has led lighting or not. It seems one change with the '17 models of each, is meeting the new higher tolerance emissions reg's over older models like mine, a '14 reg one that probably just met the '3' and not tighter '4' standard.
£630 difference is quite a lot if you just get one extra disc and ABS, considering the price difference some years back for an ABS or non ABS model (can't remember which one) was only £200 OTR.

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:05 am 
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PCX150Rider wrote:
I'd rather see the money that Honda put into developing that idle stop feature for the PCX put into what I consider to be a more useful purpose such as a sufficient lighting mechanism for the pet carrier or a more robust stock wind screen or more universally comfortable seat. I can see both sides of the argument but in all reality I'd rather be the captain of my ship and turn the scooter on or off at my command. . .not some auto feature. Plus when I'm in traffic the last thing I want to do is have my engine turn off at a stop light. Plus. . . Murphy's Law. . .what if. . .I don't want to suffer the unintended consequences of a failed restart with a Mack truck breathing down my neck and the driver being on a cell phone texting his wife on what to pick up at the store on the way home. I'm glad that the PCX150's sold in the U.S.A. don't have that idle stop feature. Maybe I'm wrong but IMHO I think the majority of PCX owners would find a better wind screen, more comfortable seat, or under seat lighting more useful. . .and not pay anything more than suggested retail right now. The PCX gets such great MPG already and the carbon footprint to make one is so small compared to an SUV that I don't see the point of creating the idle stop feature in the first place. Now they are investing in a motorcycle that will balance itself. For what market? What's the point? One can always get a trike or drive a car depending on the circumstances. If they are worried about rider anxiety or noobies then perhaps those less confident riders should start out on little bikes. . .like we used to in the old days. . .and work their way up. I started on a 90cc Suzuki. At one point I had a Rebel 250. Most of the riders I grew up with started on anything from mini-bikes to 100cc or 125cc machines and then made a leap to a 250cc or 500cc. Then, and if you had the coin, you got a Sportster or a Triumph Bonneville, or a Honda 750, with aspirations of someday getting that Harley 74 or similar machine. Getting off topic but it had to be said. . .


I don't think its a good idea and agree with above. I believe its more stress on the engine and just one more thing to go wrong mechanically and/ or electronically. Simple is better and provide better longevity. I also think this has been a competitive thing to improve(boast) better fuel economy numbers. Better that HONDA uses its engineering prowess on more comfort features ie seating etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:49 am 
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dick the den wrote:
RedBaron wrote:
I never use it. Tried a few times but in constant stop/start traffic it was a pain.

Rather they drop that feature and installed rear disc brakes instead.

My Honda sh 125 has both stop/start and rear disc.And abs.



Did it work out? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:54 am 
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iceman wrote:
dick the den wrote:
£630 difference is quite a lot if you just get one extra disc and ABS, considering the price difference some years back for an ABS or non ABS model (can't remember which one) was only £200 OTR.


SH is more expensive mainly because its made in Europe.

When the S-wing 125 first got ABS it was a £150 option

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:36 am 
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Slow motion video of idle stop systems on PCX positioning the piston for throttle up.... weird


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Maybe just a result of the arm, alternator currents, gravity and design of the engine - rather than ECU doing anyhing wierd to position it?

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