The Honda PCX / Honda Forza / SH Forums

Your predominant source of information for the Honda PCX 125, Honda PCX ESP, Honda PCX 150, and Forza. Now featuring a SH300i / SH150i subforum!
It is currently Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:58 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:35 am 
Offline
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:43 pm
Posts: 2276
Location: London, England
Year: 2015 125
Color: White
That will be bad for the clutch (going very slow too often will glaze the clutch). Going too fast and hard straight out of the dealers is also not so great in terms of new tyres should be worn in a bit as the grip is not so great from new (the pcx does seem to suffer quite a bit from glazed clutch and bearing problems - rear drive and steering)
Re. warm up - I see lots of other makes of scooter where people hop on, turn the key and move away straight away and their bikes still sound good and seem to be as reliable or more reliable than the PCX over the years I've seen them riden (there are lots of scooters in the underground car park where I work and most of their riders just pull away within seconds and the bikes sound nicer than mine). The pcx is great in many respects but I feel other scooters seem to work just as good or better in terms of issues.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:12 am 
Offline
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:23 pm
Posts: 914
Location: Long Island , NY, Tampa, Ft laud
Year: 2013
Color: blk
In colder weather it is a good idea to warm the engine prior to loading it. Computerized engines of today modulate the air to fuel ration in accordance with the OBD sensors. Accordingly, there is no need to choke as fuel delivery is automatically controlled to best efficiency stoichmetrically speaking. Engineers will tell you that there is no need for warming as they are more concerned about performance and competition in the market place. Warming in cold weather is a good idea because the metals are heating at different levels and tolerances are not yet balanced or equalized. Today's great engine oils will fill those tolerances to some extent however piston slap mostly due to short piston skirts is a common occurrence in engines not fully warmed. Therefore , to maximize longevity a short warm up period prior to loading is advantageous despite what the marketers will tell you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:33 pm 
Offline
New Member
New Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:44 am
Posts: 44
Location: Bermuda, Uk
Year: 2015
Color: Black/Grey
JetPilot wrote:
JaeMelo wrote:
you you wrote:
As I would have been if you hadn't warmed it up.

Funny, I recall seeing a person on here with score marks along his piston skirt and blowby past the oil scrapers. In addition the clear tube at the end of his air box was disgusting and full of oil which I'm sure you know what that means...


ENGINE WARM UP

Engine warm up is important !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Running High Power, High RPM on a cold engine is HORRIBLE bad for your engine :(

But engine warm up is not hard, and does not mean you have to wait 5 minutes before each ride... Scooter / bike engines warm up quickly, so if you want your bike to have top performance, and last, it is CRITICAL you do not open the throttle and run the engine hard while cold.

1. I start and let the bike run for a minute, longer is better, but who wants to sit on an idling bike for 5 minutes before each ride, not really practical, and not needed if you do the following...

2. When I start to move, I go very slow for the first block or so., I make sure I keep the RPM's, speed and power level down, just enough throttle to get the bike moving. No opening the throttle more than 1/8, JUST ENOUGH to move...

3. By the second block, I start to open the throttle enough to start to get some normal speed... Maybe 1/3 throttle, normal RPM's, maybe 30 MPH.

4. After a couple blocks of around 30 MPH, 1/3 throttle or so, the engine is warm enough to run high power, and not do damage to the engine.

The engine does not go instantly from Cold to Warm, it is a gradual process, treat it as such. Extremely careful while it is very cold, and a little more power / RPM as it gets closer to operating temperature.

Mike

Trust me I know this haha. My cheeky response towards the person who left his 5cents on something he has no idea what he is talking about.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:40 pm 
Offline
New Member
New Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:44 am
Posts: 44
Location: Bermuda, Uk
Year: 2015
Color: Black/Grey
easyrider wrote:
Depends on what climate your operating in. Todays computerized engines do not need a warm up period but I always let my engine warm for about a minute to make sure all the oil is where its supposed to be. Just me, but if I'm in 30(-) deg temps I would give it a few minutes .

Lol I guess Ferarri, BMW, Lamborgini are all ran by a bunch of idiots. You should tell them their "computerized engines do not need a warm up and that they're wasting their time." Dont forget to include your credentials so they know whose boss! :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:54 pm 
Offline
New Member
New Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:44 am
Posts: 44
Location: Bermuda, Uk
Year: 2015
Color: Black/Grey
alx123 wrote:
I always believe that the engine will warm up more quickly when running than when it's just idling.

That is true but you need to understand the point of warming up the engine and oil to get the big picture. To make things easier I'll just spill the beans.

Different metals expand from rising temperatures at different rates. Aluminum expands quicker then cast iron. Do you know what happens when you do not warm up a cast iron block/ or even a cast iron sleeved block with an aluminum piston?! You end up with nice juicy score marks from the piston expanding too fast in the bore to keep up. In addition the whole point of the oil warming up is so that oil can reach its peak lubricating ability to protect the engine.

Banging on your motor with cold oil is the last thing you want to do. It introduces accelerated wear and tear; in addition when oil is cold the oil is thicker making the oil pressure higher. Oil pressure rises as rpms rise. All the people with filthy oil tubes on their air boxes are guilty of this. That tube in the back is a good indicator of blowy/excess crankcase pressure which occurs from simply not allowing the engine to warm up..

However these motors are pretty tough so even a fool could get away with being reckless however if you have a Yuminashi 164cc kit with the cast iron sleeve you'll probably score the bore and piston skirts up being impatient/foolish.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:23 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:23 pm
Posts: 914
Location: Long Island , NY, Tampa, Ft laud
Year: 2013
Color: blk
JaeMelo wrote:
alx123 wrote:
I always believe that the engine will warm up more quickly when running than when it's just idling.

That is true but you need to understand the point of warming up the engine and oil to get the big picture. To make things easier I'll just spill the beans.

Different metals expand from rising temperatures at different rates. Aluminum expands quicker then cast iron. Do you know what happens when you do not warm up a cast iron block/ or even a cast iron sleeved block with an aluminum piston?! You end up with nice juicy score marks from the piston expanding too fast in the bore to keep up. In addition the whole point of the oil warming up is so that oil can reach its peak lubricating ability to protect the engine.

Banging on your motor with cold oil is the last thing you want to do. It introduces accelerated wear and tear; in addition when oil is cold the oil is thicker making the oil pressure higher. Oil pressure rises as rpms rise. All the people with filthy oil tubes on their air boxes are guilty of this. That tube in the back is a good indicator of blowy/excess crankcase pressure which occurs from simply not allowing the engine to warm up..

However these motors are pretty tough so even a fool could get away with being reckless however if you have a Yuminashi 164cc kit with the cast iron sleeve you'll probably score the bore and piston skirts up being impatient/foolish.


Correct..exactly what I said above.. ???


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:12 pm 
Offline
Regular User
Regular User

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:14 pm
Posts: 77
Year: 2013
Color: black
I only warm it up by starting it first, then putting on my riding gear, so maybe a minute or so. I do however drive at light throttle for the first few blocks. That light little lump of motor warms pretty quickly with 4 or 5 hp running through it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:45 pm 
Offline
New Member
New Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:44 am
Posts: 44
Location: Bermuda, Uk
Year: 2015
Color: Black/Grey
My comment was targeted towards this misleading post. Sorry if I came off a little crude but its bugs me when I see something blatantly wrong being spread. Especially when there are people here who are trying to expand their knowledge and are sucking this stuff up like sponges.

Quote:
Depends on what climate your operating in. Todays computerized engines do not need a warm up period but I always let my engine warm for about a minute to make sure all the oil is where its supposed to be. Just me, but if I'm in 30(-) deg temps I would give it a few minutes .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:18 pm 
Offline
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:24 pm
Posts: 305
Location: BC Canada
Year: 2013
Color: red white
Conclusion is? Lengthy warm-up not necessary just don't hammer full throttle right of?
I have a 15 litre Cummins diesel in my work truck and to bring that cast block to full operating temp would take hours at an idle. The manufacturer recommends 3-6 minutes warm up and slowly start to ask the engine to work.
After 10000 hours from new- so far so good.
It is a big investment so I er on the cautious side maybe 10 minutes as the season gets colder.
Just saying in my application a lengthy warm up would be overly onerous.
And I have noticed as it gets colder the computer will tell the engine to run about 300 rpm above idle for approximately 3-6 minutes-almost like the old automatic chokes on older gas pots.

_________________
slip sliding away


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:58 pm 
Offline
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:43 pm
Posts: 2276
Location: London, England
Year: 2015 125
Color: White
I start and leave it for 10-20 seconds before moving off which I believe is more than enough to get oil flowing over surfaces again, which is all that is really needed - I imagine all the 1000's of people who start their bikes and pull off immediatly have PCX's in just as good a condition as those that wait several minutes (really!) This topic is getting too long and too silly, as happens with far too many posts.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:42 pm 
Offline
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:24 pm
Posts: 305
Location: BC Canada
Year: 2013
Color: red white
No one here is silly just voicing an opinion based on experience.
If you take a 15 litre engine and convert it to 153cc
a 20 second warm up on a pcx would equate to me waiting 32 minutes to go to work.
new owners of these bikes have questions and these forums allow many opinions
up to them to decipher which path to follow

_________________
slip sliding away


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:11 am 
Offline
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 6127
Location: NE Scotland
Year: SV650AL7
Color: The correct one
Pressure at idle is much lower than when revved due to the nature of how pumps work.

What warm-up period does the owner's manual suggest is best...?

Regarding computerisation, the ECU is exactly that, a digital electronic computer which adjusts fuel flow rate and ignition advance/retard on the fly.

_________________
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:18 am 
Offline
Official Moderator
Official Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:15 pm
Posts: 6723
Location: L o n g Island NY
Year: 2015 PCX 150esp
Color: Pearl *White*
iceman wrote:
This topic is getting too long and too silly, as happens with far too many posts.

ice, wazz-sa-matter you? :D relic is right, no one silly here. We're bouncing off each other. Going in circles? Maybe a tad. But who really cares. If you're over this topic just move on and visit another. Keeping Peace, you know how this rolls ;)
But...before you do/that is/if you do, could you/would you please explain this part: "as happens with far too many posts."
My understanding: I must be guilty. No, let me correct that. I Know I'm guilty. I am a chatterbox and enjoy conversation(s). That's why I'm here and now talking to you. ;) Always a pleasure ice. Let's chill

_________________
<<< LOCATION! Year & Color Please enter Yours today!
To enter your location and other: Log in. Click the User Control Panel button (top right of this page). Upon arrival, click Profile in left column. See the questions? Please Complete. Tis Simple. We Thank You Much (o;

"Miles From Nowhere, I Guess I'll Take My Time - to Reach There" Cat Stevens
Ride On, Ride On, Ride....On!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:54 am 
Offline
Bangkok Rider
Bangkok Rider
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:58 am
Posts: 529
Location: Thailand
Year: 2016
Color: Fast White
JaeMelo wrote:
alx123 wrote:
I always believe that the engine will warm up more quickly when running than when it's just idling.

That is true but you need to understand the point of warming up the engine and oil to get the big picture. To make things easier I'll just spill the beans.

Different metals expand from rising temperatures at different rates. Aluminum expands quicker then cast iron. Do you know what happens when you do not warm up a cast iron block/ or even a cast iron sleeved block with an aluminum piston?! You end up with nice juicy score marks from the piston expanding too fast in the bore to keep up. In addition the whole point of the oil warming up is so that oil can reach its peak lubricating ability to protect the engine.

Banging on your motor with cold oil is the last thing you want to do. It introduces accelerated wear and tear; in addition when oil is cold the oil is thicker making the oil pressure higher. Oil pressure rises as rpms rise. All the people with filthy oil tubes on their air boxes are guilty of this. That tube in the back is a good indicator of blowy/excess crankcase pressure which occurs from simply not allowing the engine to warm up..

However these motors are pretty tough so even a fool could get away with being reckless however if you have a Yuminashi 164cc kit with the cast iron sleeve you'll probably score the bore and piston skirts up being impatient/foolish.


Banging on your motor is different than running your scooter. Don't get me wrong, I just dont turn on my engine and zoom out of the house in an instant. I have a few seconds of routine before I go (check lights, put on gloves, etc), but I don't deliberately keep my engine running just for the sole purpose of warming the engine up. Maybe if I haven't use the bike for more than a week I will.

_________________
Everything looks better from the inside of a motorcycle helmet...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:51 am 
Offline
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:23 pm
Posts: 914
Location: Long Island , NY, Tampa, Ft laud
Year: 2013
Color: blk
gn2 wrote:
Pressure at idle is much lower than when revved due to the nature of how pumps work.

What warm-up period does the owner's manual suggest is best...?

Regarding computerisation, the ECU is exactly that, a digital electronic computer which adjusts fuel flow rate and ignition advance/retard on the fly.


Correct , however the computer uses several engine inputs temperature being one to determine best combustion rate and that's why you can run them in colder temps without needing an enrichment choke. Because of this you can jump in and go. Manufacturers post this as beneficial and so the competition also does the same.. keep in mind they only have to warranty the damn thing for a year.? This can be debated forever , but if you intend to keep the think a long time I would get it close to operating temps as possible before loading it. That means in freezing weather cool your jets and let it warm up. If not planning on keeping it forever , let it rip.. Have fun!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:44 pm 
Offline
What's a wot?
What's a wot?
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 8149
Location: Lying in the gutter in the centre of the universe
JaeMelo wrote:
you you wrote:
As I would have been if you hadn't warmed it up.

Funny, I recall seeing a person on here with score marks along his piston skirt and blowby past the oil scrapers. In addition the clear tube at the end of his air box was disgusting and full of oil which I'm sure you know what that means...



Well that's a clear argument and well put.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
Flu based abstinence


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:49 pm 
Offline
What's a wot?
What's a wot?
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 8149
Location: Lying in the gutter in the centre of the universe
gn2 wrote:
Pressure at idle is much lower than when revved due to the nature of how pumps work.

What warm-up period does the owner's manual suggest is best...?

Regarding computerisation, the ECU is exactly that, a digital electronic computer which adjusts fuel flow rate and ignition advance/retard on the fly.



Obviously, but it's an ancillary. The engine is still the reciprocating design which hasn't change in essence for years. It's not computerised :D :D :D.


The engine management system is.

_________________
Flu based abstinence


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:48 pm 
Offline
Regular User
Regular User

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:11 pm
Posts: 123
Location: FUZHOU, CHINA
Year: 2016
Color: WHITE
don't know the FI vs cabur. difference
but I alway warm up my bike for 30sec before rev off...

idling RPM is 1700, non-idling usually 3000plus I guess? start and cold where the motor oil is not in place is the moment engine wears most, so wear at low RPM vs high RPM... that is my logic but no proof...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:14 pm 
Offline
Powered by angry squirrels
Powered by angry squirrels
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:06 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
Year: 2017
Color: PearlDrkAshBlue
Mike is correct, due to thermal expansion and oil temperature its best for the engine to let it warm up a bit while you gear up, just make sure to have a hand on the machine at all times so it doesn't go anywhere on its own. Especially if it has a high idle due to being cold, as the clutch could in some circumstances engage slightly and take it off the center stand.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:34 pm 
Offline
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 6127
Location: NE Scotland
Year: SV650AL7
Color: The correct one
If its on the centre stand the rear wheel is in the air so no matter how hard you rev it the thing's going nowhere.

And you don't need to warm it up, it's ready to go as soon as it starts.

_________________
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Like what you see here? Buy the admin a beer! Donate at the link below:

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!