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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:41 pm 
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We just tried a current model PCX vs Piaggio's new Medley 125. Is this a fair review or are you going to shoot us down?
http://www.scooterlab.uk/honda-pcx125-versus-piaggio-medley/

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:59 pm 
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Cool article.
So UK still gets the 125?? USA gets a 150?
Sort of weird. A little?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:18 pm 
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thunderkat59 wrote:
Cool article.
So UK still gets the 125?? USA gets a 150?
Sort of weird. A little?


U.K. Licensing laws are different from here in the U.S. We don't have a graduated licensing system, they do. In the UK, and a lot of other countries, <125cc is the beginner license level. From what I understand, there is an intermediate level and an expert level, but I don't know the specifics. Anyway, this is why manufacturers sell 125cc bikes in the UK, while here in the U.S., any moron with a motorcycle learner's permit can walk into a Suzuki dealer, buy a 150 hp super bike and wreck it on their way off the dealer's lot.

Tbh, I think the UK system isn't a bad idea.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:46 pm 
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We used to have a good system where you could ride a 125 as a learner, take your test on it to proved you were safe and then buy whatever you liked.

Now we have a stupid EU stepped license system which only allows bigger engines at certain ages and after other tests. This makes it expensive to get a license and has massively reduced the uptake of 2-wheel riding in Britain (which is I suspect what they wanted).

Licensing on the basis of power and forcing re-tests ignores one simple fact about motorcycle accidents. Most of them involve another vehicle and happen at a lower speed than even a PCX 125 is capable of...

If you are allowed a bigger bike after taking a test in your state, be thankful. Bad riders on Superbikes could easily kill themselves on a 125 as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:01 pm 
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Nice review. I like the styling of the PCX better though but I'm biased since I've got one.
I know what your saying about the license laws regarding bikes, but as I have just been through it I think there has to be a system in place to stop the Darwin Award candidates killing themselves. It would be wrong to let a complete novice on a powerful bike without any decent training.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:09 pm 
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"The latest systems really are very good and the electronics behind it are cleverer and have better reactions than most humans."

Not entirely accurate.
No human can outperform ABS.

Did you mention that the Piaggio has a KPH biased speedo?
Some people find these substandard instruments entirely unacceptable.

Did you mention service interval?
This is just as important as fuel economy.

The stepped licence system does not debar anyone from going from a 125 on L-plates direct to a big bike, they just need to wait till they're 24.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:12 pm 
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Alibally wrote:
Nice review. I like the styling of the PCX better though but I'm biased since I've got one.
I know what your saying about the license laws regarding bikes, but as I have just been through it I think there has to be a system in place to stop the Darwin Award candidates killing themselves. It would be wrong to let a complete novice on a powerful bike without any decent training.


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You can't ride a powerful bike as a novice, you must take a test. One test is fine, but 3 tests is really a bit much. And that still won't stop throttle-happy dumbos from turning themselves into burgers on sportsbikes.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:19 pm 
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Sticky wrote:
3 tests is really a bit much


Journalistic hysteria.
No-one is forced to do three full tests.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:21 pm 
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gn2 wrote:
"The latest systems really are very good and the electronics behind it are cleverer and have better reactions than most humans."

Not entirely accurate.
No human can outperform ABS.


If you read again what is written you seem to be agreeing with the text.

Quote:
Did you mention that the Piaggio has a KPH biased speedo?
Some people find these substandard instruments entirely unacceptable.


Fair enough. I agree.

Quote:
Did you mention service interval?
This is just as important as fuel economy.


Also a good point. Services interval on the Medley is 10,000km (6,200 miles) which is pretty good.

Quote:
The stepped licence system does not debar anyone from going from a 125 on L-plates direct to a big bike, they just need to wait till they're 24.


True, but it means also that you can't ride a 200cc hand-gearchange classic Vespa on any form of scooter. You must do a test on a foot gearchange motorcycle. There is little sense to this system unless you are trying to make motorcycling unappealing.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:30 pm 
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honkerman wrote:
U.K. Licensing laws are different from here in the U.S. We don't have a graduated licensing system, they do. In the UK, and a lot of other countries, <125cc is the beginner license level. From what I understand, there is an intermediate level and an expert level, but I don't know the specifics. Anyway, this is why manufacturers sell 125cc bikes in the UK, while here in the U.S., any moron with a motorcycle learner's permit can walk into a Suzuki dealer, buy a 150 hp super bike and wreck it on their way off the dealer's lot.

Tbh, I think the UK system isn't a bad idea.


Sticky wrote:
We used to have a good system where you could ride a 125 as a learner,
Now we have a stupid EU stepped license system which only allows bigger engines at certain ages and after other tests.
Bad riders on Superbikes could easily kill themselves on a 125 as well.



OK, Thats right! I forgot about that! Thats why you guys get those great Aprilia 125, 2-stroke road race reps and such.
I think its a great idea. Here, a 600cc bike is considered an 'beginners bike' bu the nu-gen sportbike kiddies. Those
"beginner bikes" run wide and create havoc on every curvy road in our state. Insane crash rate within first 90 days
of ownership according to my insurance agent . . .

I've been riding since '75 and still only have a learners permit. But, since we moved to Kentucky, I cant keep renewing
year after year, I will be forced to take the test soon. It will be in the 125, not the 1100.
The PCX will be a great beginner/licensing bike for me :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:32 pm 
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Finding a riding school with an A2 scooter is probably impossible . I expect there's plenty people would do that given the chance.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:39 pm 
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You said "most humans".
Not so, it should read "humans"

You can't do a test on a KTM Duke 200 either.

The intent of the graded system is to enhance road safety.
Too early to say whether the system will reduce bike and scooter sales.
One thing the new licence legislation has done is to introduce a raft of new interesting smaller capacity motorcycles to the UK market.
Its not that long since there was a yawning chasm between 125 and 600 in most motorcycle ranges.
So now thanks to the wisdom of the EU we have a selection of low cost economic fun small capacity bikes and scooters with ABS.
What's not to like about the EU eh...?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:41 pm 
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gn2 wrote:
Sticky wrote:
3 tests is really a bit much


Journalistic hysteria.
No-one is forced to do three full tests.


1. Compulsory Basic Training to ride anything (training and certificate)
2. To ride a 125 without L-plates under 19 you need to do A Test.
3. To ride bigger than 125 (>46.6hp) before age 24 you need A1 Test
4. Wait to age 24 with previous test passes or take Direct Access.

It's so simple it takes 5 pages to explain https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/369984/routes-to-your-motorcycle-licence.pdf

Either way, it's a stupid system. I guess 24-year-olds are so much more mature than 23-year-olds...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:47 pm 
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gn2 wrote:
You said "most humans".
Not so, it should read "humans"


Not so, talented racers will stop quicker without ABS, certainly primitive systems. ABS lets the brakes off when it detects a difference in wheel speed but obviously its quicker to stop (if you have the skill) if you don't let the brakes off at all and brake as hard as traction will allow.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:49 pm 
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Sticky wrote:
I guess 24-year-olds are so much more mature than 23-year-olds...




:lol:

I tend to agree that the new licence system isn't ideal, but its not as bad as some people are making it out to be.

Talented racers?
Remind me why ABS is banned in motorcycle racing?
Braking as hard as traction will allow is precisely what ABS does.
And it does it better than a human ever will.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:12 pm 
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Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of ABS and in our test it is way better, but here's the evidence of what I say. http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html

Quote:
Here's the Internet BMW Rider's account of Motorcycle Consumer News's tests. They like ABS. Though they note a small disimprovement in braking times in perfect conditions, in the wet ABS performance was brilliant. Stopping distance for the best rider (the track racer) was reduced by a third and the performance of the worst rider improved to be almost as good as the best. Although expert riders could always make the non-ABS bike stop quicker than the ABS bike, this difference was small, and ABS helped the less expert riders in the group stop significantly better. The disadvantage of ABS for the experts goes away quickly when conditions are not optimal. ABS seems like the great equalizer.


Fact is that motorcycle ABS is a reactive system. It interferes when there is a speed differential between front and rear and lets the brake off. Please explain how that will make for a shorter stopping distance than Marquez and friends slowing down with the rear wheel in the air?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:16 pm 
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Sticky wrote:
gn2 wrote:
Sticky wrote:
3 tests is really a bit much


Journalistic hysteria.
No-one is forced to do three full tests.


1. Compulsory Basic Training to ride anything (training and certificate)
2. To ride a 125 without L-plates under 19 you need to do A Test.
3. To ride bigger than 125 (>46.6hp) before age 24 you need A1 Test
4. Wait to age 24 with previous test passes or take Direct Access.

It's so simple it takes 5 pages to explain https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/369984/routes-to-your-motorcycle-licence.pdf

Either way, it's a stupid system. I guess 24-year-olds are so much more mature than 23-year-olds...



for me being over 24 it's the case of..

CBT (not really a test, its a Compulsory Training element of which you get your DL196 certificate of completion) lasts for 2 years and must be redone if licence hasn't been gained
Theory test (multiple choice test on highway code and hazard perception test) lasts for 2 years and must be redone if licence hasn't been gained
Mod 1 test (closed off handling ability and observation test)
Mod 2 test (on road practical test)

once these are done L plates off and no restrictions

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:29 pm 
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Anyway, we appear to have suffered thread drift. I hope you enjoy the article. PCX is a nice bit of kit and fully understand why you'd ride one.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:47 pm 
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thunderkat59 wrote:
honkerman wrote:
U.K. Licensing laws are different from here in the U.S. We don't have a graduated licensing system, they do. In the UK, and a lot of other countries, <125cc is the beginner license level. From what I understand, there is an intermediate level and an expert level, but I don't know the specifics. Anyway, this is why manufacturers sell 125cc bikes in the UK, while here in the U.S., any moron with a motorcycle learner's permit can walk into a Suzuki dealer, buy a 150 hp super bike and wreck it on their way off the dealer's lot.

Tbh, I think the UK system isn't a bad idea.


Sticky wrote:
We used to have a good system where you could ride a 125 as a learner,
Now we have a stupid EU stepped license system which only allows bigger engines at certain ages and after other tests.
Bad riders on Superbikes could easily kill themselves on a 125 as well.



OK, Thats right! I forgot about that! Thats why you guys get those great Aprilia 125, 2-stroke road race reps and such.
I think its a great idea. Here, a 600cc bike is considered an 'beginners bike' bu the nu-gen sportbike kiddies. Those
"beginner bikes" run wide and create havoc on every curvy road in our state. Insane crash rate within first 90 days
of ownership according to my insurance agent . . .


I agree. I think it would be good for motorcycling in general here in the U.S. If there were a graduated system based on rider skill and ability. I can't remember off-hand, I think it was in cycle world, but I recently saw a statistic that indicates the majority of motorcycle crashes in the US are single vehicle wrecks. Speeding, hot-dogging, and so on, were contributing factors. It's probably a culture thing, but I think a lot of it has to do with kids getting high end bikes they aren't ready for. Heh, a kid at the motorcycle tech school I'm attending bought a used 2014 interceptor last week and crashed it in the lot...of the Harley dealer he works for. He apparently crashed it again over the weekend. Too much bike for a kid who probably shouldn't be allowed to use a leaf blower.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:01 pm 
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Sticky wrote:
here's the evidence of what I say. http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html


1992?
Ancient history.
Got anything more recent?

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