The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

RobBob wrote:Is it possible to remove the CBS all together from new pcx 2018 and just have normal braking ? Would that be hard? My concern is about all the reports of the front wheel locking and coming off the bike. Also when I'm in Thailand the roads are slippery in rain season and when driving on a little gravel the front wheel slides too easy... CBS is a real danger. Unless they wired it so I can use rear brake separately but they didn't for some reason made the opposite so the front brake is separate.

Where are all of the reports? I've never heard an account of it causing a problem.

Dragon_uk wrote:As some of you guys have said already no need to get involved and start messing with CBS as it does its job
But for those who love to mess about with tools this is how I would've done it.
Buy longer rear brake cable and connect it straight from lever to rear drum. That's that sorted.
Lose short cable that goes from rear brake lever to CBS under headlight and you only use two pistons. That's that also sorted.
If you wish to have full braking potential of front brakes split front brake line and connect it to both bolts in front caliper and all three pistons will be engaging together.
Hope this helps those who wondered how to do it.

True enough.

I agree with Dragon_uk's description of what is required.

I'm surprised at some comments (mainly in the linked thread) that the CBS is great or that it is foolish to want improvement. The CBS brakes are a budget set up for a target market. The left brake is a crude mechanical split between front and rear. If you are happy with that, great, but accept others may come from different backgrounds and want an unlinked set up.

If CBS was easy to change I'd do it. I have a road race background - rear brake only tightens your line in corners, rear only helps in tight u turns, at max braking the weight transfer dramatically changes braking balance so I prefer a single input to each braking circuit.

Comments were made in the other thread about not being so aggressive with the brakes or learning to mainly use the left brake. Being able to stop fast is a one way to stay alive on a bike or scooter. Practice your emergency stops every so often and learn to extract everything you can out of your brakes, whatever the set up. Stay safe out there.

Don't be surprised. CBS is great based on my experience. Better than non-ABS brakes, sometimes the PCX stopping power on sudden brakes still surprises me. Though I believe the CBS is Honda's way of avoiding a more expensive upgrade to ABS brakes. It works, not just as safe as an ABS imo.

Nothing wrong with wanting something better. In my opinion, if you want a non-CBS brake, there are like a dozen other scooter options. I for one is planning to upgrade to an ABS equipped scoot, though I like the PCX, I want something much better too.

There's only one reason Honda fit CBS.

EU Regulation 168/2013

Ozpcx wrote:I have a road race background - rear brake only tightens your line in corners, rear only helps in tight u turns, at max braking the weight transfer dramatically changes braking balance

Lets look at these one at a time.

Most (all?) places its illegal to race on open public roads.
The PCX isn't designed and built for racing, its an urban runabout.
Don't ride like a dick on a public road, you're selfishly putting other people at risk.

Reducing speed tightens turning, this can be achieved by reducing throttle.
If you need to brake in a turn you have arrived at the turn too fast.
Tight u-turns are a breeze on the PCX and CBS isn't a problem in this regard.

Weight does not transfer during braking, the forces change.
On a low CofG scooter there is a bigger percentage of the overall weight over the rear wheel than on a regular motorcycle so the rear brake makes a bigger contribution to the total braking effort.

Be sure to advise your insurer that you have modified your brakes to remove the inbuilt safety system.....

Weight does not transfer during braking, the forces change.

Hence the reason why a lot of vinyl treatment manufacturers don't recommend putting it on motorcycle or scooter seats. That being said it does make them look good. . .

gn2 wrote:

Ozpcx wrote:I have a road race background - rear brake only tightens your line in corners, rear only helps in tight u turns, at max braking the weight transfer dramatically changes braking balance

Lets look at these one at a time.

Most (all?) places its illegal to race on open public roads.
The PCX isn't designed and built for racing, its an urban runabout.
Don't ride like a dick on a public road, you're selfishly putting other people at risk.

Reducing speed tightens turning, this can be achieved by reducing throttle.
If you need to brake in a turn you have arrived at the turn too fast.
Tight u-turns are a breeze on the PCX and CBS isn't a problem in this regard.

Weight does not transfer during braking, the forces change.
On a low CofG scooter there is a bigger percentage of the overall weight over the rear wheel than on a regular motorcycle so the rear brake makes a bigger contribution to the total braking effort.

Be sure to advise your insurer that you have modified your brakes to remove the inbuilt safety system.....

Thanks for that. I'm new here so hadn't worked out who the forums pointless pedant was yet. I'll ignore any future posts from you.

Consider doing an advanced rider training course.

Do they have advanced riding courses for CBS braked CVT scooters in Australia?

Oz,

I have looked at my Forza ABS-CBS' braking plumbery and shit, there's too much work/money involved in going back to basics, here. Do you know of any miracle short cut ?

Btw, I'm also anti ABC, NBC, CBS (!), whatever pedant hahaha.

Ozpcx wrote:

gn2 wrote:

Ozpcx wrote:I have a road race background - rear brake only tightens your line in corners, rear only helps in tight u turns, at max braking the weight transfer dramatically changes braking balance

Lets look at these one at a time.

Most (all?) places its illegal to race on open public roads.
The PCX isn't designed and built for racing, its an urban runabout.
Don't ride like a dick on a public road, you're selfishly putting other people at risk.

Reducing speed tightens turning, this can be achieved by reducing throttle.
If you need to brake in a turn you have arrived at the turn too fast.
Tight u-turns are a breeze on the PCX and CBS isn't a problem in this regard.

Weight does not transfer during braking, the forces change.
On a low CofG scooter there is a bigger percentage of the overall weight over the rear wheel than on a regular motorcycle so the rear brake makes a bigger contribution to the total braking effort.

Be sure to advise your insurer that you have modified your brakes to remove the inbuilt safety system.....

Thanks for that. I'm new here so hadn't worked out who the forums pointless pedant was yet

You were doing fairly well yourself.

Ozpcx wrote:

gn2 wrote:

Ozpcx wrote:I have a road race background - rear brake only tightens your line in corners, rear only helps in tight u turns, at max braking the weight transfer dramatically changes braking balance

Lets look at these one at a time.

Most (all?) places its illegal to race on open public roads.
The PCX isn't designed and built for racing, its an urban runabout.
Don't ride like a dick on a public road, you're selfishly putting other people at risk.

Reducing speed tightens turning, this can be achieved by reducing throttle.
If you need to brake in a turn you have arrived at the turn too fast.
Tight u-turns are a breeze on the PCX and CBS isn't a problem in this regard.

Weight does not transfer during braking, the forces change.
On a low CofG scooter there is a bigger percentage of the overall weight over the rear wheel than on a regular motorcycle so the rear brake makes a bigger contribution to the total braking effort.

Be sure to advise your insurer that you have modified your brakes to remove the inbuilt safety system.....

Thanks for that. I'm new here so hadn't worked out who the forums pointless pedant was yet. I'll ignore any future posts from you.

Consider doing an advanced rider training course.

He's got a point though. It's a lot of effort to go to, to attempt to reduce a risk that's minimal and not really documented, and try to bring a sporting benefit to a bike that's not built for such.

I've modified my PCX to remove the CBS and have now been riding for 5 months with the left lever = rear brake and right lever = front brake. I find it a big improvement.

The modification was simple and cheap. The front involves a braided line to a splitter and then 2 braided lines to the front caliper. The rear just requires removal of the hydraulic line and plugging it. I did lathe up a mechanical lock pin for the rear master, but that was less effective. The mod I used was similar to the approach suggested by Dragon_uk.

If you think modifying a brake system is dangerous, or don't have the mechanical skills - don't do it. I've built race bikes where brake mods were the norm. If you love CBS and it works for you - don't change it.

I prefer the non-CBS set-up because:
* I can use rear brake only for low speed control
* I can control front and rear brake force independently
* the mod changes the hydraulic ratio (same master cylinder diameter now drives more brake caliper diameter) so the front brake has more feel, although it does make it softer
* I do some riding on dirt and gravel country roads, where I find the option to use rear brake only (on steep descents and corrugations) valuable

Good write up. Thanks for returning and sharing. The split Worked. I understand your need. Cheers to enjoying your PCX (more!!)

Jge64 wrote:I don’t know where everybody gets this that the braking system is bad on the PCX. I have ridden for 40 years and I’ve clamped down on both my pcx levers in a couple emergency situations, and gotten great results. My CBS will stay, You may be different.

I agree with this! I've had my 2018 PCX almost a month and CBS is implemented very well. I've not encountered any deficiencies with braking or instances where I felt the CBS could cause me to believe my safety was compromised. My opinion is that you have to have knowledge and skill to use your brakes effectively; takes experience and practice. I live in San Francisco and riding to work downtown, where there are so many cars, rough roads and lots of construction going on, is a challenge. I feel I have more control with my braking having CBS on board.

Now, if you want to talk about the tires and front suspension... I definitely want more grip and the stock tires could be better. I've decided to get better tires now than wait. I need to make some upgrades to the suspension but haven't decided what to do yet.

I understand why you would do this mod tbh.

Apart from the stability on rough surfaces I'd like it so you could moderate the speed on turns without the front being involved.

Typically I use full throttle at a tight junction where you need to turn and moderate the speed with the rear brake. Saves you having to roll off and lose revs. Would be happier if the front was disconnected.