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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:52 pm 
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RobBob wrote:
Is it possible to remove the CBS all together from new pcx 2018 and just have normal braking ? Would that be hard? My concern is about all the reports of the front wheel locking and coming off the bike. Also when I'm in Thailand the roads are slippery in rain season and when driving on a little gravel the front wheel slides too easy... CBS is a real danger. Unless they wired it so I can use rear brake separately but they didn't for some reason made the opposite so the front brake is separate.


Where are all of the reports? I've never heard an account of it causing a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Dragon_uk wrote:
As some of you guys have said already no need to get involved and start messing with CBS as it does its job
But for those who love to mess about with tools this is how I would've done it.
Buy longer rear brake cable and connect it straight from lever to rear drum. That's that sorted.
Lose short cable that goes from rear brake lever to CBS under headlight and you only use two pistons. That's that also sorted.
If you wish to have full braking potential of front brakes split front brake line and connect it to both bolts in front caliper and all three pistons will be engaging together.
Hope this helps those who wondered how to do it.



True enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:02 am 
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I agree with Dragon_uk's description of what is required.

I'm surprised at some comments (mainly in the linked thread) that the CBS is great or that it is foolish to want improvement. The CBS brakes are a budget set up for a target market. The left brake is a crude mechanical split between front and rear. If you are happy with that, great, but accept others may come from different backgrounds and want an unlinked set up.

If CBS was easy to change I'd do it. I have a road race background - rear brake only tightens your line in corners, rear only helps in tight u turns, at max braking the weight transfer dramatically changes braking balance so I prefer a single input to each braking circuit.

Comments were made in the other thread about not being so aggressive with the brakes or learning to mainly use the left brake. Being able to stop fast is a one way to stay alive on a bike or scooter. Practice your emergency stops every so often and learn to extract everything you can out of your brakes, whatever the set up. Stay safe out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:24 am 
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Don't be surprised. CBS is great based on my experience. Better than non-ABS brakes, sometimes the PCX stopping power on sudden brakes still surprises me. Though I believe the CBS is Honda's way of avoiding a more expensive upgrade to ABS brakes. It works, not just as safe as an ABS imo.

Nothing wrong with wanting something better. In my opinion, if you want a non-CBS brake, there are like a dozen other scooter options. I for one is planning to upgrade to an ABS equipped scoot, though I like the PCX, I want something much better too.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:54 am 
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There's only one reason Honda fit CBS.

EU Regulation 168/2013

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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:54 am 
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Ozpcx wrote:
I have a road race background - rear brake only tightens your line in corners, rear only helps in tight u turns, at max braking the weight transfer dramatically changes braking balance


Lets look at these one at a time.

Most (all?) places its illegal to race on open public roads.
The PCX isn't designed and built for racing, its an urban runabout.
Don't ride like a dick on a public road, you're selfishly putting other people at risk.

Reducing speed tightens turning, this can be achieved by reducing throttle.
If you need to brake in a turn you have arrived at the turn too fast.
Tight u-turns are a breeze on the PCX and CBS isn't a problem in this regard.

Weight does not transfer during braking, the forces change.
On a low CofG scooter there is a bigger percentage of the overall weight over the rear wheel than on a regular motorcycle so the rear brake makes a bigger contribution to the total braking effort.

Be sure to advise your insurer that you have modified your brakes to remove the inbuilt safety system.....

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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:35 am 
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Weight does not transfer during braking, the forces change.


Hence the reason why a lot of vinyl treatment manufacturers don't recommend putting it on motorcycle or scooter seats. That being said it does make them look good. . . :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:16 pm 
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gn2 wrote:
Ozpcx wrote:
I have a road race background - rear brake only tightens your line in corners, rear only helps in tight u turns, at max braking the weight transfer dramatically changes braking balance


Lets look at these one at a time.

Most (all?) places its illegal to race on open public roads.
The PCX isn't designed and built for racing, its an urban runabout.
Don't ride like a dick on a public road, you're selfishly putting other people at risk.

Reducing speed tightens turning, this can be achieved by reducing throttle.
If you need to brake in a turn you have arrived at the turn too fast.
Tight u-turns are a breeze on the PCX and CBS isn't a problem in this regard.

Weight does not transfer during braking, the forces change.
On a low CofG scooter there is a bigger percentage of the overall weight over the rear wheel than on a regular motorcycle so the rear brake makes a bigger contribution to the total braking effort.

Be sure to advise your insurer that you have modified your brakes to remove the inbuilt safety system.....


Thanks for that. I'm new here so hadn't worked out who the forums pointless pedant was yet. I'll ignore any future posts from you.

Consider doing an advanced rider training course.


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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:40 am 
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Do they have advanced riding courses for CBS braked CVT scooters in Australia?

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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Oz,

I have looked at my Forza ABS-CBS' braking plumbery and shit, there's too much work/money involved in going back to basics, here. Do you know of any miracle short cut ?

Btw, I'm also anti ABC, NBC, CBS (!), whatever pedant hahaha.


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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Ozpcx wrote:
gn2 wrote:
Ozpcx wrote:
I have a road race background - rear brake only tightens your line in corners, rear only helps in tight u turns, at max braking the weight transfer dramatically changes braking balance


Lets look at these one at a time.

Most (all?) places its illegal to race on open public roads.
The PCX isn't designed and built for racing, its an urban runabout.
Don't ride like a dick on a public road, you're selfishly putting other people at risk.

Reducing speed tightens turning, this can be achieved by reducing throttle.
If you need to brake in a turn you have arrived at the turn too fast.
Tight u-turns are a breeze on the PCX and CBS isn't a problem in this regard.

Weight does not transfer during braking, the forces change.
On a low CofG scooter there is a bigger percentage of the overall weight over the rear wheel than on a regular motorcycle so the rear brake makes a bigger contribution to the total braking effort.

Be sure to advise your insurer that you have modified your brakes to remove the inbuilt safety system.....


Thanks for that. I'm new here so hadn't worked out who the forums pointless pedant was yet



You were doing fairly well yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing CBS?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Ozpcx wrote:
gn2 wrote:
Ozpcx wrote:
I have a road race background - rear brake only tightens your line in corners, rear only helps in tight u turns, at max braking the weight transfer dramatically changes braking balance


Lets look at these one at a time.

Most (all?) places its illegal to race on open public roads.
The PCX isn't designed and built for racing, its an urban runabout.
Don't ride like a dick on a public road, you're selfishly putting other people at risk.

Reducing speed tightens turning, this can be achieved by reducing throttle.
If you need to brake in a turn you have arrived at the turn too fast.
Tight u-turns are a breeze on the PCX and CBS isn't a problem in this regard.

Weight does not transfer during braking, the forces change.
On a low CofG scooter there is a bigger percentage of the overall weight over the rear wheel than on a regular motorcycle so the rear brake makes a bigger contribution to the total braking effort.

Be sure to advise your insurer that you have modified your brakes to remove the inbuilt safety system.....


Thanks for that. I'm new here so hadn't worked out who the forums pointless pedant was yet. I'll ignore any future posts from you.

Consider doing an advanced rider training course.


He's got a point though. It's a lot of effort to go to, to attempt to reduce a risk that's minimal and not really documented, and try to bring a sporting benefit to a bike that's not built for such.


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