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 Post subject: Crush washers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:22 am 
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Well I recently changed the oil in my wife's bike and mine, but I found that my wife's bike did not have a crush washer. From what I have read in the manual we are suppose to replace the crush washer when we change the oil. Well I don't, and I don't have any spares. I guess the first question would be where do I find crush was hers that work with the PCX? I have gone to multiple websites that sell PCX parts but when I do a search for crush washers multiple sizes show up on the results. I have no idea which one would work.
Second question. I went ahead and changed her oil even though there is no crush washer. Will it leak?

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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:22 pm 
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I had a slight leak the 1st time I changed the oil and I had a crush washer! (thought it would definitely leak without one).
I believe they are 12mm crush washers and available almost anywhere - price here is free to £2.20 each!!

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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Just go to any auto parts store ie Autozone or Advance Auto and just match one up to your drain plug. Any ACE store as well. You can also make one if you have any gasket material around the house. Doesn't have to be metal.


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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:07 pm 
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If it wasn't leaking before.....

Just run it for a couple of minutes and you'll see if it's leaking. It's good practice to do that anyway after a change and before a final top up to level.

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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Mel, you will have to put your finger in the dam and prepare the bolt with one hand :lol: FUN!
What a mess you will make.


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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:51 pm 
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FWIW: I've not replaced mine even once in the 7 oil changes that I've done - no leaks. I didn't even have a washer on at all once (found it afterwards in the oil pan) - still didn't have a leak.


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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:12 pm 
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So the consensus is that it won't Leak? Good. I would hate to waste good oil, especially since I buy some of the best full synthetic that I can afford... usually Mobil 1.
OK then, I will run it and see. I do normally run it for a couple of minutes when I first fill it to get the level correct, but to me that is different from pushing the engine out on the road.
I will still get some crush washers for the next oil change. I not only change the oil buy miles, but also if enough time has passed. Since my wife's bike sat for quite some time before I started taking it out for short runs, just to keep it in good working order, I thought I should go ahead and change hers while I was changing the oil on my bike. I don't think the oil went bad, but I am sure that it will be much better off with fresh oil in it.
For the sake of my old memory I have the habit of writing the oil change date and miles on the swingarm with a black fine tip felt marker. It. Comes off with Goo Gone on a rag.

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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Quote:
Well I recently changed the oil in my wife's bike and mine, but I found that my wife's bike did not have a crush washer. From what I have read in the manual we are suppose to replace the crush washer when we change the oil. Well I don't, and I don't have any spares. I guess the first question would be where do I find crush was hers that work with the PCX? I have gone to multiple websites that sell PCX parts but when I do a search for crush washers multiple sizes show up on the results. I have no idea which one would work.
Second question. I went ahead and changed her oil even though there is no crush washer. Will it leak?


Mel - Item #18 on parts list to be used with Item #14 Drain Bolt? Check the OEM parts listing for your PCX (Right Crankcase). If your wife's is a different year and model just change the machine choice and look again. You may have mentioned what year her's is at some point but I can't remember. Anyhow. . .see link below and you'll see one that will fit yours. Hope this helps. 8)

http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2013-honda-pcx150/o/m154752#sch794097


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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Mel46 wrote:
So the consensus is that it won't Leak? Good. I would hate to waste good oil, especially since I buy some of the best full synthetic that I can afford... usually Mobil 1.
OK then, I will run it and see. I do normally run it for a couple of minutes when I first fill it to get the level correct, but to me that is different from pushing the engine out on the road.
I will still get some crush washers for the next oil change. I not only change the oil buy miles, but also if enough time has passed. Since my wife's bike sat for quite some time before I started taking it out for short runs, just to keep it in good working order, I thought I should go ahead and change hers while I was changing the oil on my bike. I don't think the oil went bad, but I am sure that it will be much better off with fresh oil in it.
For the sake of my old memory I have the habit of writing the oil change date and miles on the swingarm with a black fine tip felt marker. It. Comes off with Goo Gone on a rag.


I'd be surprised if it leaked. I've not ever had anything that even looked like it was going to leak with or without the washer. Interestingly enough though, I always seem to have dirt sticking around the filler, even though I'm pretty sure it's not leaking. Never figured that one out.

For what it's worth, I find the built-in dipstick a PITA - so when I do a change I just put in 800ml per the book and don't even bother to check it (I figure the specs ain't gunna change).

Heard good things about Mobil 1 - haven't used it on the bike though because I couldn't see that it met the JASO T 903 standard type of "MB" as per the manual and since I don't know enough about these things I just ran with some expensive stuff the dealer said they've found to be the best (can't think of the brand off the top of my head).

I don't think oil normally deteriorates, but if a bike is only doing short trips then under some conditions water can build up in the oil due to condensation - and if the bike isn't run long enough for that to boil off then it accumulates and things can get a bit "interesting".


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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:49 am 
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TheMaverick wrote:
Mel46 wrote:
So the consensus is that it won't Leak? Good. I would hate to waste good oil, especially since I buy some of the best full synthetic that I can afford... usually Mobil 1.
OK then, I will run it and see. I do normally run it for a couple of minutes when I first fill it to get the level correct, but to me that is different from pushing the engine out on the road.
I will still get some crush washers for the next oil change. I not only change the oil buy miles, but also if enough time has passed. Since my wife's bike sat for quite some time before I started taking it out for short runs, just to keep it in good working order, I thought I should go ahead and change hers while I was changing the oil on my bike. I don't think the oil went bad, but I am sure that it will be much better off with fresh oil in it.
For the sake of my old memory I have the habit of writing the oil change date and miles on the swingarm with a black fine tip felt marker. It. Comes off with Goo Gone on a rag.


I'd be surprised if it leaked. I've not ever had anything that even looked like it was going to leak with or without the washer. Interestingly enough though, I always seem to have dirt sticking around the filler, even though I'm pretty sure it's not leaking. Never figured that one out.

For what it's worth, I find the built-in dipstick a PITA - so when I do a change I just put in 800ml per the book and don't even bother to check it (I figure the specs ain't gunna change).

Heard good things about Mobil 1 - haven't used it on the bike though because I couldn't see that it met the JASO T 903 standard type of "MB" as per the manual and since I don't know enough about these things I just ran with some expensive stuff the dealer said they've found to be the best (can't think of the brand off the top of my head).

I don't think oil normally deteriorates, but if a bike is only doing short trips then under some conditions water can build up in the oil due to condensation - and if the bike isn't run long enough for that to boil off then it accumulates and things can get a bit "interesting".


Very good point and that's why its important as hell to change oil frequently when short trip drives are the norm . Its a term referred to or called making oil.. Water(condensation) will build up in the crankcase and when combined with combustion gasses like CO2 and SO2 you will form acids that will eat at the metal components. Over time this will change tolerances and you will need an engine rebuild. Very important to reach and sustain operating temps to burn off contaminants, sustain oil quality and engine performance. Especially important for those that park outside the garage.


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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:06 am 
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Very good advice. Thank you. I didn't know if there was any science behind changing oil more often when it is only used for short trips, but I just felt that it would be a good thing to do. Now I know. :-)

PCX150Rider, thanks for the link. I wondered where that was listed. I now have the part number. However, when I added it to the cart and went to check out, the shipping was something like $7 or $8 !! I think I will go to a motorcycle shop and ask them for one. I am sure that even if I buy one from them it won't be $7 or $8 for a washer.

Oh, and by the way, my wife and I have matching 2013 models. It is much easier to take care of identical ones than each one having a different set of plastics and instructions for removal. Mine has half the miles on it as hers because I traded down from my Burgman 400 after she had been riding hers for a year.

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Givi tall windshield and tailbox on both
Lots and lots of extra lights
Custom seats from Thailand
Bad boy Airhorn on each
Takegawa Lowering Shocks on both


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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:47 am 
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Quote:
PCX150Rider, thanks for the link. I wondered where that was listed. I now have the part number. However, when I added it to the cart and went to check out, the shipping was something like $7 or $8 !! I think I will go to a motorcycle shop and ask them for one. I am sure that even if I buy one from them it won't be $7 or $8 for a washer.


Oh yes. . .sorry I forgot to mention the shipping. I usually wait until I get enough stuff on my wish list so when I order something from Bike Bandit I get the free shipping. You have to check any exceptions on some items but generally if you go standard domestic shipping and buy $99 worth of stuff the shipping is free. Here's a link to their shipping info. 8)

http://www.bikebandit.com/help/shippingoptions


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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Sheeez, it's just a washer we're talking about. If it's not there- big deal - the oil needs to seep past 6 or 8 coils of bolt thread and the bolt's head fastened against the pan to even make the the smallest drip.

If you want, just put some gasket sealer - or cut a washer from a piece of cardboard or folded-over piece of tape. But if you use sealer, don't put it on the pan's threads or past about 1/2 of the threads up from the head (wrenched end) of the bolt.


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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Mel if you have a Cycle or Honda auto dealer nearby, visit their parts dept. Ask them for a 12mm drain bolt sealing washer (oem aluminum). My Honda Ridgeline drain bolt washer is the same 12mm size. Cool!
I keep several on hand. Not necessary to change them every oil change. I do it every other change. Some folks go longer, some go without.
Again a case of, 2 each his/her own ;)

Or buy on Amazon with free shipping ;) https://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Hardw ... olt+washer

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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:37 pm 
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springer1 wrote:
Sheeez, it's just a washer we're talking about. If it's not there- big deal - the oil needs to seep past 6 or 8 coils of bolt thread and the bolt's head fastened against the pan to even make the the smallest drip.

If you want, just put some gasket sealer - or cut a washer from a piece of cardboard or folded-over piece of tape. But if you use sealer, don't put it on the pan's threads or past about 1/2 of the threads up from the head (wrenched end) of the bolt.


Yes, made many using match book cardboard.. Works great.


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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:39 pm 
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^ they make good shims too ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:11 pm 
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Or buy an oil pump and never have to drop the sump plug again :lol:

Broken record I know. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:12 pm 
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WhiteNoise wrote:
Mel if you have a Cycle or Honda auto dealer nearby, visit their parts dept. Ask them for a 12mm drain bolt sealing washer (oem aluminum). My Honda Ridgeline drain bolt washer is the same 12mm size. Cool!
I keep several on hand. Not necessary to change them every oil change. I do it every other change. Some folks go longer, some go without.
Again a case of, 2 each his/her own ;)

Or buy on Amazon with free shipping ;) https://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Hardw ... olt+washer



You can re-anneal them if they are copper (not aluminium)

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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:32 pm 
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springer1 wrote:
Sheeez, it's just a washer we're talking about. If it's not there- big deal - the oil needs to seep past 6 or 8 coils of bolt thread and the bolt's head fastened against the pan to even make the the smallest drip.
If you want, just put some gasket sealer - or cut a washer from a piece of cardboard or folded-over piece of tape. But if you use sealer, don't put it on the pan's threads or past about 1/2 of the threads up from the head (wrenched end) of the bolt.

From experience, not tightening the bolt enough (with washer) had a small leak, enough to wet the floor over 24 hours. Tightening the bolt more stopped the leak. If you believe the thread and bolt top is enough to stop oil coming out, just screw it in until it stops and don't tighten - bet oil will leak. Maybe more so from cold/hot expansion and more room for the oil to get though, but as the PCX does not have much to start with, for the cost of a few cents, why not use one.

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 Post subject: Re: Crush washers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Mel, you need Honda part number 94109-12000
Its standard across nearly all Honda models and should be available from any Honda dealer for pennies.
My local dealer always has a box of them at the parts counter.

Or you can get them from eBay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 00&_sop=15

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