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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:06 am 
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homie wrote:
http://www.hondapartshouse.com/
Use the 2013 'face set driven' assembly if you can get it, but the 2015 assembly might be interchangeable. The newer part number hasn't failed to date for us LED owners but I don't know of any yet who have installed it. There won't be a PCX listing for 2012 or 2014 in their parts cat as nothing changed on PCX during those years.

Mines a '14 issue LED model and the clutch bearing has been bad and getting worse for ages - still only done 12900 miles! I need to sort this as it sounds awful when wheeling the bike but I don't notice any issue at speed (clutch engaged) on the road. I will change the whole face set and probably belt/rollers and add the alternative clutch - the one that stops the judder as mentioned in this forum some months back.
Re. the grease - is that added to the bit the face place slides onto or otherwise? (we don't have to take it apart and grease the bearings do we, as that is the reason for purchasing the whole face place to start with - to stop the need to get the small bearings out of the assembly).

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:20 am 
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iceman wrote:
Re. the grease - is that added to the bit the face place slides onto or otherwise? (we don't have to take it apart and grease the bearings do we, as that is the reason for purchasing the whole face place to start with - to stop the need to get the small bearings out of the assembly).
Nothing new is going to come to you with more than a light coat of grease in shipping. My experience is a packet of unknown grease product comes with the assemblies.

Neither of the two bearings in the 'face set driven' are sealed bearings so you must pack them with the proper amount of QUALITY grease. We need a grease that won't easily melt down in hot temperatures staying between those bearings in the summer and NO you don't have to disassemble the 'face set driven' to grease it. You simply put the grease between the needle bearing and the roller bearing by hand and no more than 7 grams. If by chance you get pre packed bearings with grease I would not like that because who knows the amount and quality applied?

This is not hard and I wouldn't trust the gorillas to get this right either, just follow the SM yourself.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:46 am 
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homie wrote:
iceman wrote:
Re. the grease - is that added to the bit the face place slides onto or otherwise? (we don't have to take it apart and grease the bearings do we, as that is the reason for purchasing the whole face place to start with - to stop the need to get the small bearings out of the assembly).
Nothing new is going to come to you with more than a light coat of grease in shipping. My experience is a packet of unknown grease product comes with the assemblies.
Neither of the two bearings in the 'face set driven' are sealed bearings so you must pack them with the proper amount of QUALITY grease. We need a grease that won't easily melt down in hot temperatures staying between those bearings in the summer and NO you don't have to disassemble the 'face set driven' to grease it. You simply put the grease between the needle bearing and the roller bearing by hand and no more than 7 grams. If by chance you get pre packed bearings with grease I would not like that because who knows the amount and quality applied?
This is not hard and I wouldn't trust the gorillas to get this right either, just follow the SM yourself.

Thanks! Thought it was harder to do. Do we believe Honda applied a small amount or no grease or a problem with the bearings themselves?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:59 am 
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iceman wrote:
Do we believe Honda applied too small amount or no grease at all with the bad bearings?
Sorry this I how I interpreted your question :D
No one to my knoledge to date including Honda has accepted responsibility for the failed pre-LED PCX 'face set driven' bearings. I'm sorry some of you must pay too much for the 25usd part. Just pay attention to the packing process, do it yourself and if you contaminate the clutch shoes this too has a fix. I feel your frustration but those of you who suspect a failing bearing should take care of it at some point.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Out of curiosity, do we know which of the 2 bearings in the driven assembly has been failing?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:21 pm 
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TheMaverick wrote:
Out of curiosity, do we know which of the 2 bearings in the driven assembly has been failing?
I would take this question to Mel who has removed two of them in the past. If I were to guess I would say it's the 'high surface contact' needle bearing making all the noise as it slowing grinds out. Mine is a 2015 so I only have knowledge of removal and assembly of a functioning one because I was curious. At that time we did not know if the problem was solved as people were complaining but Honda was not responding publicly. Being the overkill kind of nut I am I added some grease while I was in there thus my later experience and knoledge of clutch shoe contamination and how to fix that :roll:



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:51 pm 
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homie wrote:
@Maveric & Nemesis

When you get the new part it will not be greased properly. There might be a packet of grease with it or not. Here's the deal... It could say with instruction to add 7 grams of grease and I will check the service manual for confirmation on this but it's absolutely critical you pay attention to this application of grease between the bearings and don't trust the packet of grease is of the correct amount or quality.

Best to have too little than too much as too much exits the area and gets on the clutch shoes. If this happens you will eventually squeal and shudder on acceleration as grease begins to burn off on the clutch shoes. This will go on forever and cause you to read another thread on fixing or replacing contaminated clutch shoes.

Spare yourself this chain of events and let's talk about what quality of grease product you choose to keep it from melting down into the clutch and prepare with scales to meet the SM's requirements in grease weight application BETWEEN the two bearings ONLY. A clean and proper application and assembly is necessary in this delicate balance of grease that rides in close proximity of your sensitive clutch shoes.


Thanks Homie,

I should be fine - I've got the scales, new clutch shoes (which I may or may not fit), and an existing shudder (which I'm used to). I'm just hoping it all arrives before the old bearing fails, as it's feeling a bit rough. Wish just the bearing was available locally, but according to the experts it's an oddball size :( I think I've seen enough videos now to be able to do it in my sleep :)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:42 am 
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Hey Maverick,

could you record the sound of back wheel when you turn it with hand? Just to hear it and "compare" :D


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:50 am 
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Here is the problem that I came across while trying to locate the bearings themselves. Notice that there are two listings for #18 and two listings for #19. This is from the 2013 part lookup, but the same seems to apply for later models.

18
BEARING, NEEDLE (20X29X18) (SCHAEFFLER)
91109-KVY-901
$5.06

18
BEARING, NEEDLE (20X29X18) (NTN)
91001-KCW-003
$6.50

19
BEARING, RADIAL BALL (6902U) (NTN)
91002-GA7-701
$14.82

19
BEARING, RADIAL BALL (6902U) (NSK)
91009-KVY-961
$3.26


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0_0.png
0_0.png [ 6.72 KiB | Viewed 215 times ]

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:00 am 
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Quote:
Here is the problem that I came across while trying to locate the bearings themselves. Notice that there are two listings for #18 and two listings for #19. This is from the 2013 part lookup, but the same seems to apply for later models.


A prime example of why it is important to be an informed consumer in order to make the best purchasing decisions. ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:15 am 
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Let's get this right people 8) this is how we pack em.

Don't learn a lesson the hard way like I did and put too much grease which will end up on your "clutch outer' race. I had to use a heat gun to bake the clutch shoes after sanding each shoe to get back a smooth, shudder free operation. Plus I melted all the old grease out of the face set driven and started over with the proper amount of grease. Not complaining, it was a learning experience :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:05 am 
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Nemesis wrote:
Hey Maverick,

could you record the sound of back wheel when you turn it with hand? Just to hear it and "compare" :D


Sure - when I wake up - 4am here at the moment ...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:07 am 
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Mel46 wrote:
Here is the problem that I came across while trying to locate the bearings themselves. Notice that there are two listings for #18 and two listings for #19. This is from the 2013 part lookup, but the same seems to apply for later models.

18
BEARING, NEEDLE (20X29X18) (SCHAEFFLER)
91109-KVY-901
$5.06

18
BEARING, NEEDLE (20X29X18) (NTN)
91001-KCW-003
$6.50

19
BEARING, RADIAL BALL (6902U) (NTN)
91002-GA7-701
$14.82

19
BEARING, RADIAL BALL (6902U) (NSK)
91009-KVY-961
$3.26


I saw that too. Best guess is just different manufacturers?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:20 pm 
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TheMaverick wrote:
Mel46 wrote:
Here is the problem that I came across while trying to locate the bearings themselves. Notice that there are two listings for #18 and two listings for #19. This is from the 2013 part lookup, but the same seems to apply for later models.

18
BEARING, NEEDLE (20X29X18) (SCHAEFFLER)
91109-KVY-901
$5.06

18
BEARING, NEEDLE (20X29X18) (NTN)
91001-KCW-003
$6.50

19
BEARING, RADIAL BALL (6902U) (NTN)
91002-GA7-701
$14.82

19
BEARING, RADIAL BALL (6902U) (NSK)
91009-KVY-961
$3.26


I saw that too. Best guess is just different manufacturers?


It is. I'd go for NSK where possible.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:26 pm 
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Well this is going to be interesting ...

I popped just 1 bearing into the cart on BikeBandit, but didn't complete the transaction when I saw it was going to be $90 odd dollars for freight (which is bizarre since freight for a belt, clutch weights, and air filter was only $30 something dollars last time). So I didn't complete the transaction and bought from Partzilla instead who's freight was only $8.

This morning I get an eMail from BikeBandit saying "your order has shipped". WTF? I checked - PayPal & credit card haven't been charged, and the bearing was still sitting in the cart (since deleted). Have replied with a "please explain". Will be interesting!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:05 am 
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Nemesis wrote:
Here is a great video-tutorial for how to change these bearings... Peace of cake wit the right tools :lol:



Having taken off the old bearings, he looked at them and said that he could not see anything obviously wrong with them, but that it seemed that the grease had come off them, and he'd just go ahead and put the new ones on.

Then later, at about nine minutes thirty odd, he commented on packing in grease and said he thought it might come out through the (three pin) holes in the shaft and/or the main hole upto which the shaft will reach once inserted.

Then he says he thinks the grease will leak out, but that he should put in plenty. He also mentions there being no grease on the bearings when he disassembled it, and wonders about that.

Then he talks about a sound beginning to be emitted at about 10,000 K or less on the PCX (then changes that to about 6,000-7000), He seems to think that at that low mileage it's very early for a sound like that to start in the case of a PCX.

As it's chatter while he is working and not clear-cut sentences, we have to make of that what we will. It is not a pronouncement of the problem in absolute terms, it seems.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:21 am 
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I have over the last few days, since seeing this thread, learned that this problem is not uncommon.
One page suggests that about 1 in 5 PCX scooters suffers this.
I looked originally at this thread as mine has made a sort of whirring noise / slight whistle / almost turbo-dump-valve like noise from the time I bought it at 10 months old with 4,400 k / 3,000 mi on it in Jan 2016.
Now at 16,500 k / 10,000 mi as of Aug 2017.
Noise is more obvious at 30-40 kph than at cruising speed.
Slightly rough catching / scraping sound when the engine's off and I rotate the rear wheel, about which someone on here said there should be (almost) silence when doing that with a completely healthy bearing(s).
As I intended to swap the belt, rollers, etc at about every 18,000 - 20,000 kilos anyway, I think I will have it all apart and ask the dealer (I do not want to buy bearing removal and fitting tools) to just do the bearing swap work.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:41 am 
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Here's a video of my PCX making "the sound" (as promised in a previous reply). It's done this since new, and is currently 32,300km. Doesn't appear to be getting any worse, but I've got parts on the way regardless.

PS: Someone's lawnmower making a bit of noise in the background - it's not coming from the PCX.



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:12 am 
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Wondering whether mine has the same supposed issue, I recorded the video/sound of me spinning the back wheel slowly while the bike is still full assembled.
Not sure if this is useful, but for reference.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2_ec ... 0drRFRycVU

Can post a video of the sound of it idling with slight throttling on the centre stand if that's any good for telling wether there's trouble.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:00 am 
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pxc-in-japan wrote:
Wondering whether mine has the same supposed issue, I recorded the video/sound of me spinning the back wheel slowly while the bike is still full assembled.
Not sure if this is useful, but for reference.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2_ec ... 0drRFRycVU

Can post a video of the sound of it idling with slight throttling on the centre stand if that's any good for telling wether there's trouble.


I had a good listen with headphones on and the volume turned up - yep - sounds exactly like mine did when I had lower mileage on it. Mine's now at 32,000km (ish) and currently (with that cover on) it doesn't sound any louder, but mine does sound slightly "rougher".

Personally, it's not something I'm losing any sleep over - I suspect it'll give us more warning before it fails completely, and it's a easy & cheap fix. Perhaps just get the parts on-hand so they're their when you need them.


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