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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:07 am 
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pxc-in-japan wrote:
As I intended to swap the belt, rollers, etc at about every 18,000 - 20,000 kilos anyway


Book says 24,000 for belt off memory, and I suspect most will go well beyond that (mine is currently at 32,000 - has cracks on the inside, but there's no depth to them and that's not a particularly structural part of the belt).

I wouldn't worry about variator rollers unless it "gives you a sign".

My personal philosophy (apart from oil changes which I do every 4,000km) is to just give the bike regular inspections and to not "over-service it" - I think most scheduled components will give you plenty of warning before they reach the end of their useful lives.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:40 am 
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pxc-in-japan wrote:
Nemesis wrote:
Here is a great video-tutorial for how to change these bearings... Peace of cake wit the right tools :lol:



Having taken off the old bearings, he looked at them and said that he could not see anything obviously wrong with them, but that it seemed that the grease had come off them, and he'd just go ahead and put the new ones on.

Then later, at about nine minutes thirty odd, he commented on packing in grease and said he thought it might come out through the (three pin) holes in the shaft and/or the main hole upto which the shaft will reach once inserted.

Then he says he thinks the grease will leak out, but that he should put in plenty. He also mentions there being no grease on the bearings when he disassembled it, and wonders about that.

Then he talks about a sound beginning to be emitted at about 10,000 K or less on the PCX (then changes that to about 6,000-7000), He seems to think that at that low mileage it's very early for a sound like that to start in the case of a PCX.

As it's chatter while he is working and not clear-cut sentences, we have to make of that what we will. It is not a pronouncement of the problem in absolute terms, it seems.

Grease should be placed/packed into the three groves in equal amounts, the round tube cover that goes over that part along with the two seals is supposed to prevent the grease escaping onto other parts. It seems in many cases Honda tech's did not add the correct amount of grease and/or bad bearings, as these seem to have changed on the new version of the driven face, final (there's the older x-x-640 part (from memory) and a newer one.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:39 am 
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Hi everyone,

Just to add some info about this interesting topic,
I'm from France (so excuse my poor english ^^ )

I got the exact same noise on my 2017 PCX 125, and it annoys the hell out me!

My PCX has only 1600 km and the noise starts to be heard at like 500 km i guess.

I have seen several times the Honda dealer where i bought my PCX, but they said that sound is totally normal...
I tried on an other PCX, that sound is obviously not there, or maybe very very low.

I went to another honda dealer (smaller, actually more on mechanic than on sales i guess ) and the mechanic just turn the wheel backwards, said something is wrong and he said it's from the clutch bearings, and he has seen this issue several times even on low mileage PCXs and Forzas...

I'm quite stuck because i need to deal with the first Honda dealer where i bought the pcx if the works are on warranty, but they don't seem to be okay to work on that , that's crazy...

I will go back to the second dealer to have an advice, and i will keep you updated on the solution if i got one !
I will change it by myself if i'm obliged to, but the spare parts are so expensive in france ! 140 euros for the famous part... (FACE DRIVEN , part #8)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:10 am 
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When I had the problem on my bike, the warranty was at one dealer, but I ended up getting the bike fixed at another shop.The main dealer refused to acknowledge that there was a problem. When the second shop had the bearings out of the bike the mechanic said that the bearing looked almost flat on one side from wear without grease. Some dealers are only in business for the money, and the less they have to spend the better, even if it puts the safety of their customer in jeopardy.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:33 am 
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um... we don't see this kind of bearing failure on 2015-18
They must have dug deep in the parts bin to find a bad bearing.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:51 am 
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Ours is a 2013 model that was manufactured in 2012. The problem started at about 5,000 miles. The bike had 10,000 miles on it before we finally were able to get something done. By that time, I am guessing that there was a run on that part because the assembly was back ordered everywhere, and the shop could not even locate the bearings. They finally were able to get the individual bearings from a shop in California and had them shipped overnight. We have had no problems with that part since then, but for quite some time after that there was a backorder on the assembly. Other members started reporting this problem, and the shop that fixed our bike told us several months later that they had a run on that assembly because of the bearings going bad. The mechanic attributed it to lack of grease. From what I have seen on this forum, the problem still exists but is not as prevalent now.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Mines a '14 reg 15 year according to Honda doc - LED model and has the clutch bearing issue. If most of this is due to lack of grease then that's shameful as it's not the odd one that crept through but 100's (losts of them reported on the FB forum including a new case today).

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:24 pm 
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iceman wrote:
Mines a '14 reg 15 year according to Honda doc - LED model and has the clutch bearing issue. If most of this is due to lack of grease then that's shameful as it's not the odd one that crept through but 100's (losts of them reported on the FB forum including a new case today).
Could be grease quantity or quality is the problem. I have learned two things about this issue with Precious.

1. Too much grease will contaminate your clutch shoes costing you repair or new ones.
2. Poor quality grease can melt. The natural heat build up from constant friction on clutch operations could be enough to break down the wrong grease.

Use exactly 7.3 grams of the Service Manuals grease recommendation according to the product specifications and place it exactly as shown in this diagram. Product and placement is critical for the life of these two bearings found inside the FACE SET, DRIVEN.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:07 pm 
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Here is my update:
I have tested the vario and clutch without cover (just to eliminate the bearing for the clutch shaft that is in the cover) and this squeaking?!
- chirping sound is still there. I have tested also the transmission bearings without clutch and I think they are all OK - what do you think?

Here comes the interesting part - I have replaced my 15g rolls with the original 17g (testing the fuel consumption) and also cleaned with sandpaper the clutch and the shoes and for a good 50km or so I could NOT hear the strange sound. But after that it came again :(

More and more I am thinking about vario sliders (22011-KWN-900) and-or the belt? Could they be reason for this irritating sound? Or the clutch bearing/bearings remain as the main suspect?






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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:18 pm 
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one more relevant thing that I forgot - I don´t have a torque wrench so I "might" overtighten the clutch and vario bolts before and this last time... :(


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:11 pm 
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Nemesis wrote:
one more relevant thing that I forgot - I don´t have a torque wrench so I "might" overtighten the clutch and vario bolts before and this last time... :(


Go buy one - basic ones are dirt cheap - and a hell of a lot cheaper than replacing the crankshaft on the motor if you strip it. I did my rear driven face assy, clutch shoes, and belt in the weekend and was surprised that the correct torque wasn't as much effort as I was expecting to put in.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:34 am 
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TheMaverick wrote:
Nemesis wrote:
one more relevant thing that I forgot - I don´t have a torque wrench so I "might" overtighten the clutch and vario bolts before and this last time... :(


Go buy one - basic ones are dirt cheap - and a hell of a lot cheaper than replacing the crankshaft on the motor if you strip it. I did my rear driven face assy, clutch shoes, and belt in the weekend and was surprised that the correct torque wasn't as much effort as I was expecting to put in.



That's because the torque wrench is generally longer than the ratchet handle you would have used.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:31 am 
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you you wrote:
TheMaverick wrote:
Nemesis wrote:
one more relevant thing that I forgot - I don´t have a torque wrench so I "might" overtighten the clutch and vario bolts before and this last time... :(


Go buy one - basic ones are dirt cheap - and a hell of a lot cheaper than replacing the crankshaft on the motor if you strip it. I did my rear driven face assy, clutch shoes, and belt in the weekend and was surprised that the correct torque wasn't as much effort as I was expecting to put in.



That's because the torque wrench is generally longer than the ratchet handle you would have used.


I never use a ratchet for nuts/bolts of a substantial nature; breaker bars are sturdier, longer, and faster (once the tension is released it's usually possible to change the head angle from 90 deg to 0 and spin the shaft with my fingers). I only use a ratchet when access is restricted and the nut/bolt has already been detensioned. My torque wrench is longer than my breaker bar, but not by a huge amount.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:51 am 
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Very interesting replies, thanks for that !

I suspect than this failure (in my case at least) is due to the lack of grease, maybe there is even no grease at all ! It begins so quickly after the bought, that's very strange.
Maybe some PCXs are build in factory with no grease on these bearings (mistake, oversight...) and those bearings destroys very quickly...

If they change me the bearings (or the whole assembly of face driven) maybe that could be a good thing to check the grease sometimes, maybe on each oil replacement.

The type of grease shown in the manual seems quite hard to find, do someone knows if it's very special ? (thickness, temp resistant...)

I got some high temp graphite grease, but it's very thick and sticky, i don't think it is fine on high revs bearings...
I got some PM600 Military Grease too, it's used by SRAM for a lot of parts of MTB forks and shocks, it is a very good grease, a lot of pressure resistance, this could be fine, but maybe the heat resistance is not enough !

http://www.oilcenter.com/ProductInforma ... /PM600.pdf


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Assuming that Shell Alvania R3 and RL3 are the same, I think it has now been superseded by Shell Gadus S2 V100 3: https://www.smithandallan.com/products/ ... vania-rl3/


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:48 pm 
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Givestrong wrote:
I suspect than this failure (in my case at least) is due to the lack of grease, maybe there is even no grease at all ! It begins so quickly after the bought, that's very strange.
Maybe some PCXs are build in factory with no grease on these bearings (mistake, oversight...) and those bearings destroys very quickly...


I can only speak for mine, but it was making that rear bearing noise from pretty much day 1, and was still making it (with little change) 33,000km later - and no reason to suspect it wouldn't have carried on for a long time yet.

My suggestion is to change the rear driven face assy and then just leave it alone unless it gets worse again. I did rear driven face, clutch pads, and belt all at 33,000 and the timing seemed about perfect on all of them.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Just to close this topic, now I am 99% sure that my problem is nothing but a (common pre LED Pcx problem) driven face bearing/s. I have also noticed that after longer ride (50km and more) there is a noticeably "grinding" sound from the clutch by turning the wheel on center stand. Once the engine is cold - the sound is not so bad however.

So, now remains only the dilemma which bearings should I buy? NTN set (more expensive) or NSK + Scharffler set (91009-KVY-901 and 91009-KVY-961). Any experiences? Original bearings that came on my PCX are produced by INA btw.


Here is the video:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Nemesis wrote:
Just to close this topic, now I am 99% sure that my problem is nothing but a (common pre LED Pcx problem) driven face bearing/s. I have also noticed that after longer ride (50km and more) there is a noticeably "grinding" sound from the clutch by turning the wheel on center stand. Once the engine is cold - the sound is not so bad however.

So, now remains only the dilemma which bearings should I buy? NTN set (more expensive) or NSK + Scharffler set (91009-KVY-901 and 91009-KVY-961). Any experiences? Original bearings that came on my PCX are produced by INA btw.


Here is the video:


I faced the same dilema. In the end I just bought the whole driven face assembly; when freight was factored in it only cost a few dollars more - came with the correct grease & brearings - and I didn't have to worry about trying to get the old bearings out (which, if it's had a heat issue due to the grease not getting to where it should be, I think the odds of the old bearings being a "challenge" to remove are probably increased). Plus - I now have the old assy that I can replace the bearing on and keep it as a spare if I wish.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Quote:
I faced the same dilema. In the end I just bought the whole driven face assembly; when freight was factored in it only cost a few dollars more - came with the correct grease & brearings - and I didn't have to worry about trying to get the old bearings out (which, if it's had a heat issue due to the grease not getting to where it should be, I think the odds of the old bearings being a "challenge" to remove are probably increased). Plus - I now have the old assy that I can replace the bearing on and keep it as a spare if I wish.

Thanks for this, I'm putting this in my file of 'tips', sounds like a good idea !


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:30 pm 
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springer1 wrote:
Quote:
I faced the same dilema. In the end I just bought the whole driven face assembly; when freight was factored in it only cost a few dollars more - came with the correct grease & brearings - and I didn't have to worry about trying to get the old bearings out (which, if it's had a heat issue due to the grease not getting to where it should be, I think the odds of the old bearings being a "challenge" to remove are probably increased). Plus - I now have the old assy that I can replace the bearing on and keep it as a spare if I wish.

Thanks for this, I'm putting this in my file of 'tips', sounds like a good idea !


No worries. It's not a big deal either way. Hardest part for me was getting the socket to fit over the clutch nut; local suppliers didn't have a regular socket that size so I had to settle for an impact wrench one. Was quite surprised at the amount of dust that came out of the clutch assy too.


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