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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:08 am 
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Somebody on this forum purchased a lithium battery to replace their Yuasa. Supposedly that is the way to go. I don't know because I haven't replaced mine with anything else other than the Yuasa. I have purchased several batteries from www.batterysharks.com

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:09 pm 
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I looked up the PCX battery here in New Zealand and was shocked - around NZD 350 from one reputable source! I don't understand why it's so expensive - as far as I know it's just a 12V 6AH lead acid "gell-cell" battery. In comparison I buy a lot of 12V 7AH "gell-cell" batteries for UPSes and they cost me NZD 15 (not a typo) each. What makes a battery that's 1AH smaller 23 times more expensive?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:04 pm 
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It might be because it has to be able to sit sideways without spilling. Otherwise, I haven't the slightest idea, and I wondered as well.
I did find one a little cheaper online that MAY ship to New Zealand, but you would have to check with them on it.
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/det ... sch=794114

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:07 am 
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Mel46 wrote:
It might be because it has to be able to sit sideways without spilling. Otherwise, I haven't the slightest idea, and I wondered as well.
I did find one a little cheaper online that MAY ship to New Zealand, but you would have to check with them on it.
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/det ... sch=794114


Thanks - hopefully mine has a year or two left in it yet.

Are these true lead acid as in conventional car batteries, or gell-cell lead acid? (the latter can operate in any orientation)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:48 am 
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Greed seems to be the reason - like with most things, manufacturing and shipping costs are normally a fraction of the retail price. Asda sell faily nice 2L bottles of fizzy drink for 50p, yet you can pay 70p for 330ml of a brand name!
Lindy sold a USB extender for £80 + p/p from the UK - the body and internal electronics are exactly the same as an unbranded one from China - down to component level and that sold for £14 shipped from China! (and works just as reliably or unreliably as the crappy Lindy range).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:08 am 
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TheMaverick wrote:
Mel46 wrote:
It might be because it has to be able to sit sideways without spilling. Otherwise, I haven't the slightest idea, and I wondered as well.
I did find one a little cheaper online that MAY ship to New Zealand, but you would have to check with them on it.
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/det ... sch=794114


Thanks - hopefully mine has a year or two left in it yet.

Are these true lead acid as in conventional car batteries, or gell-cell lead acid? (the latter can operate in any orientation)


Gell would be my guess.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:19 pm 
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My Burgman's YUASA must sit on its side, too. No big deal. Buy the factory sealer version. Not expensive.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:17 pm 
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I got the battery today and installed it, and Mantis roared (well, meowed) to life. The battery from Motorcycle Superstore is the exact same battery that was in the scooter, which I actually find odd. Yuasa batteries are allegedly made in the USA - Honda has them shipped across the world to install in a machine made in Thailand? There isn't someplace a bit closer in Asia that makes a reliable enough battery to satisfy Honda? Whatever.

I do have some question now if I needed the battery at all. Before the switch out, I noticed that one of the terminal screws was a bit loose. After tightening it, the scoot kicked over and started. It did not kick with authority, but it did start. I'm putting it on a charger overnight and will check the voltage, then let it sit for a day, then a week, and check again. It is possible that I now have a 12V power source for any hobby thing I might want to do, like make a simulator to test trailer wiring.

Given everything that has been said here, as well as discussion with other motorcycle people, my four year old battery probably didn't have many more months of service left - I don't feel that bad about a premature replacement.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:24 pm 
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We are now sure that the battery is NOT the issue. I replaced the battery on Wednesday. Went to work and returned on Thursday; went to work and had to be rescued today (Friday). I had charged up the old battery and it too would not start the scoot. 13.4 V. The new battery showed 12.9 V when I checked it. No MIL, so it is off to the service manual for me.

On the brighter side, I set up a trailer winch on a bit of channel iron across the back of the pickup truck, and, in conjunction with the ramps I got, it made getting the machine into the truck pretty much painless.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Frustrating. I feel your pain. Hope you get to the bottom of it very soon.

As an ex-avionics tech, all I can add is that 95% of the time faults like this turn out to be something simple - usually just a poor connection at the end of a wire somewhere (or a switch).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Sorry I can't pull a rabbit out of a hat for a solution.

Does the scoot try to turn over at all? Or is it totally dead?

If you park it in the dark on a fully charged battery do you get any really dim glow in the headlight or tail lamp even though the ignition is turned off?

Are you squeezing the brake lever hard enough when you go to start it? I know. . .stupid question. I wonder how that switch works though.

Sometimes wire insulation wears thin due to vibration on points where it comes in contact with the frame. If you tried to jump start the scooter with cables would it start then on the center stand? Or should I say how's that side stand kill switch situation?

You've probably asked yourself all these things. Damn. . .wish I knew what to tell you. :(


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:48 pm 
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WhiteNoise wrote:
George, First thing that comes to my mind is simples stuff (how I think, easy first :) Dad's lesson.
What position is your "kill switch" in? That big Red Rocker switch above throttle? That could easily be rocked to the "off position" with ones clumsy gloved fingers. It's been done many a time, by many a rider on many a bike.
I truly hope it's as simple as that :P

Faulty or malfunctioning kill switch?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:07 am 
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Need more details. Is the new battery voltage showing 12.9 volts at the time of ignition??, or does it die off overnight? When you turn ignition on does anything light up ?? When you press start does the voltage drop once pressed.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:17 am 
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More details forthcoming as far as V drops and currents, but I think the salient point is that the MIL (the yellow light on the dash) does not illuminate when I turn the key to the ON position. Speedo sweeps, tail light comes on, horn beeps. Headlight does not come on. Someone please turn on your scoot with the sidestand down (and then up, if you are really curious) and confirm that the MIL light just comes on . Mine doesn't. While you are at it, give your headlight a look - I'm not sure if that comes on with the ignition or after the scoot is running. Who pays attention to that sort of thing when the machine is running? I can flick the sidestand, the kill switch, and squeeze the brakes all I want, but the starter will not engage.

Service manual tells me to get to the ECM and test the light by shorting a pin to ground, and if it is not the light then replace the ECM with a known good one. Like I have spare one kicking around... I also do not have a place to disassemble the scoot and let it sit while I sort this out - spreading out the plastics around the driveway is not a good long term solution for me. OTOH, I don't think my dealer does much work on PCXs or Forzas, so having them bumble around chasing things for $100 an hour is an unpleasant thought.

Either battery fresh of the charger seems to run around 13.4 volts. When I tested the new battery yesterday after I swapped it out, it showed 12.9 volts, which is certainly enough to operate the scoot. I'm going to swap the new one (fully charged) back in and can measure current with the ignition off, then on and report back.

As I said in the title: Growl.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:37 am 
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More Data: Fresh of a charger, a battery is 13.4 V, but after stabilizing for 15 minutes, it drops to 12.95ish.

I measured the current and found 0 amps when the ignition was off (as expected, but eliminates a short killing the battery or leeching off enough juice to prevent starting). Ignition on: 1.07 amps (taillights and dash - headlights not in the game). Squeeze brakes, 2.7 amps. This all seems reasonable, so my problem is deeper - but still might just be some errant wire someplace.

More to follow, but my son is visiting this weekend and we have other stuff planned. Glad I have the Forza to get me to work while Mantis is under the weather.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:40 am 
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On a 2013 pcx the headlights do not come on until the engine is running. Also, several members in the past had problems with their side stand switch, though if you don't use the side stand I wouldn't bet on it as the problem. I hope the pictures of the wiring diagram will help you. I have taken mine apart many times, and usually it is the last thing I touched that caused the problem. I wish I were there to help you, as other members have probably wished as well.

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Custom seats from Thailand
Bad boy Airhorn on each
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:08 pm 
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Ok.so you have good power at the battery, so you have to start eliminating the kill switches one at a time. Side stand , brake start switch , engine kill rocker switch. Get a jumper wire and do each one separately until you find the offender. If all test out good go to your starter relay and jump that, still no good then direct wire the starter motor and see if it spins over. I think however you probably have a bad side stand or kill rocker switch.
Note if any work has been done lately to the bike , where and what can also be a clue.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:59 pm 
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I don't believe the problem is switches. My son was game, so we started trying to figure out the service manual instructions. No MIL sends you to check the ECM, so we had to start disassembly. I will need a new meter panel cover at the end of all this (do you just order it from the dealer?). I broke one tab, but the dealer has broken two. I don't think the remaining one is going to do the trick. I've also found a couple of other tabs broken, and so far one missing screw and one oddball replacement screw. The dealership wins no prizes.

I'm somewhat happy to be attacking it myself, but it is very frustrating to have the manual say "Release the snap fit clip (5)" when you don't have a clue just how deep the clip is, where exactly it is, and how one actually goes about "releasing" it. This is going to be a slow process.

OTOH - a couple of times in the process I have tried to start it, and a couple of times it has. And then hasn't. Clearly the ECM is OK, but there is some short or bad connection. If you don't get the yellow MIL for a few seconds after turning the ignition to "on", nothing is going to happen - side stand, brake lever, or kill switch be damned. I've gotten the "center cover" and "inner cover" off and can see the ECM, but it is now dark. I hope to be able to get to the ECM plug without the taking the "body cover" off - we shall see.

Homie - I tried to find your youtube channel, but it must be under another name. Could you post a link to one video? I can probably find others from that.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:00 pm 
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The problem resulted from a dirty fuse according to this poster from days of Yore. http://hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5565&hilit=circuit&start=0

You have to scroll down to the bottom of page 1 of the thread.

Not saying it's your problem but sounds similar. :geek:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:14 pm 
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Here's a link to Homie's videos. He does a great job and takes his time. When I did my first oil change and strainer screen cleaning I used one of them. Will also use the final drive gear oil change one next week. Just hit 1000 miles on my PCX yesterday and want to get the first one done. :D

You'll notice a list of his videos on this link so I'm sure he'll be glad to chime in tomorrow if you have any questions. It's late here right now. . . https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMucgwdtFljhD4ibSo086AkoyVAcpcIwl :geek:

BTW I forgot to mention on the thread I linked to previously the original poster thought it may have also been a problem caused by water intrusion into the kill switch. :roll:


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