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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Location: Danvers MA USA
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After four flawless years, today the PCX decided to stay very quiet when I pressed the starter to come home from work. Dashboard came to life, horn worked, as did the turn signals and tail light. Headlights were NOT illuminated. Messed with side stand at least ten times and obviously squeezed the bejezus out of left, right, and both brakes while pressing the starter.

Took voltage at battery - 12.1. A bit low. All fuses OK. Tried to jump it with a jump pack. Still not a peep. Gave up and got a ride home, and arranged for a tow (insurance would pay). Tow never showed up. Tried to jump with car while waiting, but to no avail. Cancelled tow after waiting four hours. A-holes.

Came back home and got the pickup truck, and headed out to try to get some ramps or a carrier or something. Ended up getting ramps, and brought the scoot home. In the dark. It is sitting in the truck right now while I weigh my options.

Since it didn't respond to a jump, I don't think charging the battery is going to help. If I bring it to the dealer, they will get to it in maybe a week.

What is the likely failure, and what can I check before bringing it to the man? It seems to me that the sidestand switch or brake interlock switches are the most likely culprits. How do I check those things out, or remove them from the list of possible issues? Are there any other possibilities that I am missing?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:42 pm 
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You have a long list of trouble shooting to do before you surrender to the gorillas. Stand by

Where is your SM?
Electrical starter Trouble Shooting. Go to the index under Trouble shooting and see 'electrical starter'... begin itemize eliminations. SM is in your PM

probably a fuse :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:07 pm 
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Looks like the first thing I should have paid attention to was the MIL (malfunction indicator lamp). I can't recall if It was on or not when I turned on the key. I guess that is tomorrow's first check, as well as putting the battery on a charger. SM suggests that as a first thing, so I guess I will give it some juice tomorrow.

Can the ECM (engine control module) just up and die without warning?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:08 pm 
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OH - and thanks, Homie.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:17 pm 
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GeorgeSK wrote:
Can the ECM (engine control module) just up and die without warning?
Upper echelon PCX mech bro, you will need a whisperer for this question. But have heart as you can see there is plenty here to check yourself. Have FUN! I wish something interersting would break on mine :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:01 am 
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ECM is highly unlikely. My bet is one of the interlocks is faulty. Side stand would be my bet.

As always check for a spark first.

You did have enough petrol :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:06 am 
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You can quickly check side stand switch by unplugging it and then using a fresh battery to turn over.Not sure if that switch is a NO or NC.So if no crank then use a jumper wire across the switch.If still no crank,and you installed a new fresh battery,look to brake switch and then pcm code.You did check main fuse?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:49 am 
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3 questions:
If side stand down, does one get the same exact symptoms as he did with his key-on finding? i.e., everything on but the head lights and a no-crank?

If a battery cell is dead, will a jumper hooked to the posts of that injured battery skew the results?

Would connecting to a known good battery be a good first step?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:21 am 
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At this point,I would replace the battery with a brand new one and start from there.Its 4 yrs old anyway and showing 12.1 volts .The Jump battery didn't help so possibly a shorted cell.I would replace battery first.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:53 am 
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Attachment:
Honda_PCX_2014-more_Electrical_wiring.pdf [67.41 KiB]
Downloaded 14 times

I am sure that you have the SM but here is the wiring diagram to help you along.
This is for the 2014, but I do have the 2013 as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:01 am 
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2013 wiring_pg2.jpg
2013 wiring_pg2.jpg [ 234.59 KiB | Viewed 294 times ]
Attachment:
2013 wiring_pg1.jpg
2013 wiring_pg1.jpg [ 272.9 KiB | Viewed 294 times ]

Here is the 2013 wiring diagram, for anyone who may want or need a copy.

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Bad boy Airhorn on each
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:33 pm 
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George, First thing that comes to my mind is simples stuff (how I think, easy first :) Dad's lesson.
What position is your "kill switch" in? That big Red Rocker switch above throttle? That could easily be rocked to the "off position" with ones clumsy gloved fingers. It's been done many a time, by many a rider on many a bike.
I truly hope it's as simple as that :P

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Update: After perusing the service manual last night, I thought it prudent to at least put the battery on my charger before going through all the assorted troubleshooting stuff. Actually there was no prudence involved - the SM said to make sure the battery was fully charged. I would make sure to observe the MIL when I tried to start after charging.

Lo and behold, Mantis just started right up. I agree that the battery is suspect and that I will start hunting for a replacement (any recommendations will be appreciated). Maybe it is tired enough that the four mile run to work is not enough to keep up with the power requirements of starting - IDK. Why I couldn't jump start it with a jump pack or a regular old car is beyond me still.

Side stand switch is not totally out of the picture - maybe it jostled back into working order during the push up the ramp and the ride home in the back of the truck. It now lies in wait...

Or maybe the scoot was just embarrassed to need a ride.

Next trick is out of the truck and go for a longish ride. Yea! I think...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:51 pm 
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That's good to hear! Not exactly too comforting for trips far from the house but an intermittent issue can be challenging and fun! EZ is right on this one, I have heard from many in other bike forums that the battery is worth replacing right off with this kind of fail. Then these guys go after all the ground connections for intermittent or peculiar electrical issues. But we don't get grounding issues with the PCX in here... interesting. So unmentioned is a ground cable problem I don't even know where it is :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:43 pm 
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A tired battery, and or, loose cables at the posts....have caused many interesting issues with EFI engines.
EFI is great stuff in my opinion. ....but in my experience they DO like a nice healthy battery !

Consider measuring your stock battery......take those measurements to the YUASA info page. Buy the most powerful YUASA of same dimensions and post types & positions which you can afford (Amazon). Ride off across NE on your EFI scooter - with confidence. (MA is a great state for riding. I lived in Amherst and rode my Honda bike all over the bsck roads, 2-up with.my young wfe)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Quote:
Consider measuring your stock battery......take those measurements to the YUASA info page. Buy the most powerful YUASA of same dimensions and post types & positions which you can afford (Amazon). Ride off across NE on your EFI scooter - with confidence. (MA is a great state for riding. I lived in Amherst and rode my Honda bike all over the bsck roads, 2-up with.my young wfe)


Battery connections are sometimes a cause for problems. . .. I find once you have to give them a recharge every few days it's time to get a new one. Otherwise you end up stranded. . .or get a jump start.

I've done a lot or riding in MA as well. None of it on the PCX. At least not yet. :lol:

Monson Hill Climbs are great. Haven't been there in a while but used to go more frequently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7Oi8rOF6iM

Mt. Greylock. Awesome. . .highest point in MA. Veterans War Memorial Tower, great views, go easy on the speed and brakes leaving. http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/dcr/massparks/region-west/mt-greylock-state-reservation-generic.html

Cape Cod is one of my favorite places. My kids always had a great time when we went there. Rode my KLR and Suzuki Bandit up there a few times. . .last time was a midnight ride on the 10th anniversary of 9/11. Crazy night. . .it rained just before I got into Hyannis and then the clouds moved on. A dark ride back since the traffic was minimal.

A pic from the parking lot at Race Point Beach. . .when I was a kid my parents paid for us to go on a dune buggy ride out there.

Attachment:
P1010043a.jpg
P1010043a.jpg [ 181.95 KiB | Viewed 254 times ]


Now that I'm retired I should try another ride up there on the Bandit after Labor Day but the traffic is more intense now and the road quality runs hot and cold when it comes to pot holes or missing patches of asphalt. Even though they did some improvements going through Providence R.I. it's still not like it used to be. :roll:

Sorry, I digressed a bit from the battery chatter. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:55 pm 
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Today's Update: Tried to start this morning to no avail. Local shop does not have a battery and would have to order, so I ordered a Yuasa YTZ7S for myself and saved a couple of clams. It should be here Wednesday, and hopefully all will be well.

Gotta say that if you have to drop 120 clams every three of four years on a battery, it takes some of the shine off the economy of the scooting experience.

Nice pic of Race Point, PCXRider. I think there are nice places to ride lots of places once you are out of the city. Danvers is about twenty miles north of Boston, but if I avoid going south, I have miles of unimportant local roads that are great to ride on. We did 50 miles on the Forza this aft, and about 15 of it was along the edge of the Merrimac River with not a soul in front of me. Glorious.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:27 pm 
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GeorgeSK wrote:
Gotta say that if you have to drop 120 clams every three of four years on a battery, it takes some of the shine off the economy of the scooting experience.
Over at the Buell forums we eat batteries as well as Harley's are notoriously hard on batts. The guys buy the best they can and STILL some of these batteries are fatally flawed now and then. I think you will have better luck.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:49 am 
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GeorgeSK wrote:
Today's Update: Tried to start this morning to no avail. Local shop does not have a battery and would have to order, so I ordered a Yuasa YTZ7S for myself and saved a couple of clams. It should be here Wednesday, and hopefully all will be well.

Gotta say that if you have to drop 120 clams every three of four years on a battery, it takes some of the shine off the economy of the scooting experience.



But I don't think people are heaving to replace the battery every three years. Are we sure yet the battery is the source of the issue?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:52 am 
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homie wrote:
GeorgeSK wrote:
Gotta say that if you have to drop 120 clams every three of four years on a battery, it takes some of the shine off the economy of the scooting experience.
Over at the Buell forums we eat batteries as well as Harley's are notoriously hard on batts. The guys buy the best they can and STILL some of these batteries are fatally flawed now and then. I think you will have better luck.



Same for the Boxer Cup, takes a bit of cranking. I have to treat the battery like a princess to get more than two years out of it.

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