The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

GeorgeSK wrote:More or less. Just twice as many letters. Doesn't really make you feel (or sound) twice as clever, though.

Where does it originate from? Design?

Terry Hershner just completed the worlds first electric Iron Butt 1,000 miles in 24 hours on his Vetter streamlined ZERO electric. Electric motors are way more efficient over the road than ice engines. He got 281 mpge at 70 mph for the trip. 24kWh batteries and 24 kW of onboard chargers. Seen here sucking four level2 chargers dry at the same time.
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http://www.greencarreports.com/news/109 ... y-hershner
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the inevitable downside of electrics......
7 batteries at 60 pounds each + 4 chargers at 25 pounds each = > 500 pounds (of fuel!?)

add that to the weight of the bike + rider and gear and at 80mph, you have the kinetic energy of a bulldozer....
so, not intended for corner carving on mountain twisties?

Very expensive hardware also. But most people wouldn't need that much range or rate of charge to get back and forth to work or to a friends house. 281 mpge and power from renewable/ green energy is promising for the future when the oil runs out. Fossil fuel will be barely a blip on the timeline of human existence.
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2015 Zero Models with "ABS!!"
Oh if I had the money, I'd investigate these bikes further & seriously consider buying one. They just keep getting better (but Still, too costly But....they're aware and will re-work those numbers (someday )

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/ ... ction.html

I want a Zero S so bad. Starting from $13.5k (CAD) with a top speed of 150km/h, 0-60 of 4.8 seconds, and a combined city/55mph cruising range of 140km at what I calculated to be 50 cents of electricity per 100km/60 miles, it would more than suit my commuting needs. But meh, not in my budget. It'll go into my 5+ year budget. But I think getting an electric commuter car for my wife will be a bigger priority. She prefers driving a stick shift as do I but we are considering sustainable transportation moving into the future. We'll likely keep a stick shift as a second car/road trip vehicle.

With electric vehicles too, you don't have to change the oil, adjust valve, or do any other internal combustion engine type maintenance. Also with regenerative braking, you'll change the brakes 2 to 3 times less often.

dkazzed wrote:I calculated to be 50 cents of electricity per 100km/60 miles

How do you figure? I pay $0.14 / kWh. 3.4kWh/ 60 miles would be 17.6 m/kWh or 600 MPGe. Most people don't break 200 MPGe on a Zero. Terry's full streamlined Zero did 8.26 m/ kWh, 281 MPGe on his 1,000 miles in 24 hour Iron Butt. Better check the total cost at the bottom of your electric bill divided by the kWh that you used to see what you are really paying.
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http://insideevs.com/iron-butt-terry-ri ... -24-hours/
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The best the magazine could get out of their Zero was 6.5m/ kWh, for 221 MPGe battery to wheels.
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http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/05/09/20 ... fications/
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Ok based on the manufacturer's ratings, we all know how notoriously optimistic those tend to be, which they rate at 5 kWh per 100km in the city (12 kWh per mile) and 10 kWh per 100km at 90km/h (6 kWh per mile). I pay 8 cents a kWh for the first 800 kWh a month and I think 13 or 14 cents after. I calculated mixed city/90kmh(55mph) at 8 cents a kWh. Although we've been exceeding 800kWh since our furnace broke down.

The performance of the Zero S seems to be somewhere about a 500-600cc bike in acceleration and 250-300cc bike in top speed? I wonder what bike you would price that against to find out payback period. CBR 500 would be my guess. The 500 is slightly slower, but goes slightly faster.

Divide your payment by your kWh to see what you are really paying.
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3568 kWh over two months (furnace broke down), $401.89, 11.3 cents per kWh.

Basic charge 16.64c a day 62 days $10.62
1376 kWh @ 7.52c a day $103.48
2192 kWh @ 11.27c a day $247.04
Rate Rider 5% $18.04
Regional transit levy 6.24c a day $3.87
Sales Tax 5% $19.14

Total $401.89 (11.3c a kWh)

August bill sample:
Basic charge 16.64c a day 62 days $10.62
1086 kWh @ 7.52c a kWh $81.67
0 kWh @ 11.27c a kWh $0
Rate Rider 5% $4.60
Regional transit levy 6.24c a day $3.87
Sales Tax 5% $5.02

Total $105.48 (9.7c a kWh)

So my marginal kWh rate in the winter assuming I don't fix my gas furnace anytime soon is 12.4c a kWh, and 8.3c a kWh in the summer assuming I don't break and decide to get an air conditioner after last year's stifling hot summer.

Nice price. Washington and Oregon state have cheap power also. The USA is giving back a $7,500 rebate for purchasing an electric car.

No more rebates for motorcycles. The cars still get $7,500 back.
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A federal tax credit was available for the purchase of any new street legal 2012 or 2013 Zero (and two 2011 models) purchased in 2012 or 2013. This tax credit and the one for electric motorcycle charging equipment both expired on December 31, 2013.
Zero Motorcycles has been pushing throughout 2013 for an extension to the Federal electric motorcycle tax credit into 2014. On December 19, 2013, a bill was introduced in the US Senate to extend this key tax credit, however based on the current gridlock in Washington DC, there was not an extension of Federal E-Motorcycle Credit in time.
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The price of the Zero needs to come down. And Honda needs to wake up and go with belt drive for the 300, 500, and 700's so we didn't have to mess with lubing a chain.

If you want a highway capable moto that can cruise 80 mph cross country and still use a minimum amount of gas, any of the Honda 500's are hard to beat for the price.

There are rebates in Ontario and Quebec in Canada for electric vehicles, but none for BC at the moment unfortunately.

It's a bit unfair to compare the payback period between the PCX150 and the Zero S base but assuming I ride about 16,000km a year, I'd spend $570 a year on gas ($1.309 a litre) and $400 a year on 8k oil changes and once a year valve adjustment vs. $200 on electricity assuming 10kWh per 100km or 62 miles and 12.3 cents a kWh, that's a payback period of 12.5 years.

Compare a Forza 300 or CBR500, the payback period is 7 years.

So at this point when I'm in the market for a PCX 150, I would say no it's not worth it. Upfront costs are more than triple what I want to spend forcing me to finance and the payback period is way too long. Say five to eight years from now when I'm looking to get something bigger/faster, I would say definitely worth a look.

The price will probably come down with volume. For the batteries to be good for 500,000km before the capacity reduces to 80% of brand new means they've put some seriously good batteries in there. Definitely enticing if I could buy one bike to use for 30 years or 500,000km. Hm.

Just read that Polaris bought Brammo, Inc. (Electric Bikes) this past March. Now we wait to see where things go

https://www.brammo.com/projects/
http://legacy.brammo.com/home/#
The Brammo Enertia Above
http://legacy.brammo.com/enertia-plus/
With video

But I still like the Zero S Below
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/sr.php
and The 2014 Brammo Empulse below (fugly)

at 2999.00 Cdn the PCX trumped anything electric I could find
13600.00 for the zero

relic wrote:at 2999.00 Cdn the PCX trumped anything electric I could find
13600.00 for the zero

The zero refers to the money in your pocket after you've bought it

Hahaha! That was good!