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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:05 am 
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I thought this was pretty interesting...
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/w ... e-industry

A thirty mile range, 20 MPH transportation device could serve the point A to point B needs for many people. I considered a Bion-x for my mountain bike, but was put off by the price.
http://ridebionx.com/products/ebike/ebike-systems/

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:45 am 
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20 mph is a class 1 ebike which requires no license or registration and gets up to 800 mpge plus whatever you pedal. There are literally 100's to choose from today. Class 2 bikes are allowed to make 28 mph. From city bikes to cargo to off road. ebikes are the future for personal transportation in an ever more crowded and resource scarce world.
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https://electricbikereview.com/
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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:06 pm 
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you you wrote:
WI_Hedgehog wrote:
Honda goes into "full stupid" mode.
:lol:

It’s a concept bike. The clue to a concept bikes purpose is in the name if you look hard enough.

The concept is stupid. :D

@GeorgeSK has a great article, and I think it's spot-on. That does cover most urban travel, and they're honest about the market they're targeting and the capabilities of the machine. This is a great idea and will be successful.


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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:18 pm 
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And now for something COMPLETELY different....

https://www.designboom.com/technology/p ... 2-21-2017/

At least it has a seat belt for when you get t-boned by that SUV.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:41 pm 
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I also like the Toyota i-road leaning enclosed three wheeler.
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http://www.toyota-global.com/innovation ... ty/i-road/
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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:49 am 
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Come back Clive Sinclair :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:58 am 
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GeorgeSK wrote:
I considered a Bion-x for my mountain bike, but was put off by the price.
http://ridebionx.com/products/ebike/ebike-systems/

I just looked at the price. $2,500 is completely out of the ball park now that all of the torque sensing mid-drive bikes are mature. There is a nice deal on a close out Izip Peak + or Sumo right now for $2,600 for the whole bike.
.
https://izipelectric.com/electric-bikes/sale/e3-peak
.
https://youtu.be/v4Xhp94a3HI
.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:44 am 
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I would put a LOT more LED lights on the Toyota I-20road so that I could be seen at night! One of the pictures shows it in traffic at night, and you can barely see it! It only has a single headlight as well.
Still, if the world is moving in that direction then I guess it is about the same as the other ones that are being introduced.

However, my wife says it best: For a scooter or motorcycle ride, why bother? We get out there to feel the freedom and open air of the country, and the quick access to places while in the city. Get a car if you want to be fully enclosed.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:05 pm 
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The idea is energy and resource efficiency as everything gets tight moving forward. There is no way 11 Billion people can all have a car. But 4 times as many can have an i-road. Small 2 person vehicles that take up 1/4 the space and metal and batteries of a car and that means mean that more people will still be able to have enclosed personal transportation in the near future after the population peaks and carbon energy declines. People should learn to look ahead more than a few election cycles, more than a few hundred years, and try to imagine what "they" will need in the future and how do we start to aim for that now while we still have this immense energy wealth to make big changes to our infrastructure. Eventually an ebicycle or e push scooter with a 500Wh battery will be a great luxury.
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Another really great last mile option for people who will commute into cities on electric train, or out to the farm fields on electric busses, is the electric kick scooter since they fold down to a handy carry on size with one click.
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https://www.amazon.com/SEGWAY-eScooter- ... inebot+es1
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https://youtu.be/F7ubaNOQOtY
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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:55 pm 
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Me want an electric Messerschmitt

https://drivetribe.imgix.net/IrU480cHRi ... aces,edges

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:52 am 
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No offense, I think the iZip price vs. performance isn't there yet. At half the cost of a PCX and nothing near the performance, no rear suspension, and no guarantee on replacement parts being available in 3 years (iZip will probably say to upgrade the bike instead), it doesn't do it for me--it might for you, and fitting your needs is of course the goal.

So far the gas-bike conversions are still in that same price range and less reliable, although replacement parts are easy to come by. They technically require a driver's license in the U.S. so the electric bike has an advantage there.

With all the work on tilting three-wheelers they will be the next huge revolution in the automotive industry. Millenials will find that while Uber and Lyft are great, they want their own freedom [for minimal investment] and transportation smaller and cooler than the SMART will be it.

Earlier this year I contacted Toyota about testing the I Road in the U.S. after their Japan tests were completed, as I have the facilities they required and have other 3-wheelers. Sadly, the U.S. Isn't even a consideration until after the i-Road is in full production in other countries (and turning a good profit). There are too many governmental restrictions to overcome, and their target market doesn't have the infrastructure to support such a vehicle. (In other words, hipsters might invest in the vehicle, but not secure parking, charging, and current maintainance requirements.)

I think @GeorgeSK nailed it though, Peugeot squarely nailed the concept. Even though lithium technology has advanced greatly, it runs best in a limited temperature range, not too hot or cold. (I was running in 20F=-7C yesterday, and while the batteries did well, they had about 1/3 range). The faster you go, the less distance the batteries will take you. With a petrol engine none of that is a concern--take the batteries off-line and go. Going "fast" is also not a problem. And there's heat...a tiny compressor for air-conditioning would be nice too, given the plastic bubble is going to cook the driver when the sun is out--but Peugeot engineers are good about practical things, so they'll most likely have a solution.

It's not just about "being green," because quite frankly, that crap costs more than gas engines. Batteries are expensive and environmentally unfriendly to make and dispose of--plus they don't last long. They cost a lot to purchase, they catch fire and release deadly toxins, have a narrow range of operating and charging temperatures, on and on.

It is about "being cool" [and somewhat practical]. Look at the younger generation--appearance is everything, selfies (posting pictures of yourself online) rule. Peugeot nailed it.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:37 am 
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The mid-drive ebikes are still really expensive due to the torque sensing name brand motor units but I am a hard core XC trail rider and these are the pinacle of offroad cycling. Cheap hub motor conversions with a throttle can be done for $400 and are used by the Millions in Asia where bike commuting is feasible. Electric kick scooters are another great option to carry on and off the subway with you to cover the last couple miles of a commute. The batteries come inside with you to stay warm.
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Electric transportation makes sense for improving air quality in big cities but won't be obviously cost effective until there is a carbon tax or in a few decades when depletion of crude oil forces inevitably much higher prices. I encourage civilization to not wait until the last minute to start learning how to get by without fossil fuels now so we are not shocked at the end. Save some for later. 11 Billion people are going to need it to grow food while they figure out how to get back to 2 Billion and grow crops with no artificial fertilizer using muscle power.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Well! Harley's finally bringing it! Expected U.S. Arrival: 2019 - ELECTRIC!

Member easyrider recently posted this link about it: https://www.maxim.com/rides/harley-davi ... ear-2018-2
You can read more here under his topic: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8449

What pray tell will "it" sound like? Weird


@ member sendler, would you want an Electric Harley to move-ya-around? (I think I know the answer)

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Not the Harley. The Zero technology is mature. But the price went way up. I bought a class 1 e-bike for my son to equalize our performance so that we can start riding some real single track trails.
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https://www.randombikeparts.com/collect ... aha-10-new
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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:52 pm 
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You guys need to fire up Amazon prime and find the “Grand Tour” most recent episode, it was released today. They do a test of the Tesla SUV, and it wipes the floor with a Audi V-10 R8… In a drag race… Unbelievable…season 2, episode 10.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:40 pm 
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TBH I believe the market for electronic motorcycles or scooters is best defined in urban areas. Also, different countries have different traffic characteristics and what may be good for one may not be so great for another. So the manufacturers really need to focus on where they see the markets and not get too delusional about advertising and promoting (brain washing) a market segment that is not currently receptive to the idea and probably never will. . .or at least not enough of a percentage to make it worth while.

Gas powered vehicles allow freedom of choice on where and how far you want to go and are really only limited by your wallet, weather, or comfort level. :D

Electric powered machines are like a parking meter. When it runs out you'd better be there and be able to get it going again or you'll be penalized. Where was that charging station in the sticks anyways? :o

I could be "old school" and ignorant but somehow I just can't equate Harley Davidson with electric motorcycles. That being said if they emerged with another effort like the "Topper" scooter from days of yore, only more up-to-date and electric, I think that would be possible. . .as far as possible is in the market these days. But again a gamble. It makes me question who at Harley is behind all this. I mean really man. . .are they serious. Tons of cash laid out in a direction that is totally alien to their whole scene. If they wanted to be more realistic perhaps competing with Honda or Kawasaki or Yamaha or Suzuki and their product offerings may not be a bad idea. But remember for electric it's about local. . .for gas it's about go anywhere as far as you want. :?

I just don't think the American riders are all thrilled and chomping at the bit for the latest and greatest electric motorcycles or scooters. . .at least not yet. Maybe for sub compact, compact, or SUV's perhaps but I think that's where it ends. Bicycles seem to do OK with electric models but they can be freaking expensive for the good ones. Cars like the Volt or Tesla have cargo capacity to deal with batteries galore. But a motorcycle? :roll:

Think about it. Wouldn't you rather head out on your Harley and feel you have the option to change that 20 mile ride into a 200 mile all day ride on a whim and know that you can just fill up at the nearest Shell or Mobil you see along the way. On an electric Harley where do you think the nearest charging station is going to be. And that being said do you want to be delayed or limited on a "freedom machine" in the first place. It's like having a parent give you the nod to go around the block but no further unless you check back to see if it's OK. And the odds are they won't or they call you in to finish your homework. I dunno. 8)

I wish it was Spring. . .dry. . .and warmer. . .at least 50F. . .I'd be out riding now. . .with a full tank of gas. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:09 pm 
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Electric vehicles are still slightly ahead of their time. It's about a choice not to burn fossil fuels. 35 years from now we will truely pass peak oil and the price will spike to 5x of the current price. Europe already has a fair chunk of carbon tax and gas is $8USD/ gallon. Norway has anounced a ban on all combustion engine cars by 2025. China is right behind them. And that is a huge market with 100 Million/ year potential.
.
What will "they" do in 100 years after we blow through every drop of oil we can get our hands on. Will they look at what we built and passed on to them and think we wasted it all?

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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:38 am 
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What will "they" do in 100 years after we blow through every drop of oil we can get our hands on. Will they look at what we built and passed on to them and think we wasted it all?


True indeed. . .. I believe that petroleum should be used more for lubricants and plastics and other products that can be recycled and resold. Gasoline or diesel vanishes into thin air. So the main burden of reducing fossil fuel consumption and air pollutants from motor vehicles lies with the automobile and truck industry IMHO.

The upside to 4 wheelers is that they have the cargo capacity to haul batteries. The vehicle is the gas tank so-to-speak. More (or more efficient) batteries. . .more range. So that platform is a frontier for exploitation. We know who the leaders are in that field right now. It's like they are trying to prove the world isn't flat to the non-believers. And. . .electric cars have been around since the very beginning. . .but nosed out by the competition and big oil. :o

Electric vehicles have great torque, are quiet, and aside from whatever manufacturing pollution goes into making them seem to be environmentally friendly. I totally get that. And as time marches on they will get the long range potential down to a science. ;)

But for 2 wheelers it's a different story as I already mentioned. And since motorcycles or scooters take a lot less energy to produce in the first place. . .let alone their MPG efficiency. . . I think the main burden of cleaning up the fossil fuel emissions remains a 4 wheeler responsibility and a 4 wheeler capability. And that takes it back to electric 2-wheelers for the urban or local riding markets and gas (or plant based fuel) for long range riding markets. One thing for sure is that in the urban or local markets one will not be too far away from the almighty charging station. :D

To take it a step further. . .home heating and heating of buildings in general is another fossil fuel market that is truly being impacted by solar, wind, and nuclear technology. Hydro electric too. It's a huge challenge. Natural gas is not a solution to our environmental problems. It's a filthy process to tap that reserve. Although special interest groups promote it like it's "the" way to get off oil. We really need to explore, develop, and put into use the non-fossil fuel energy alternatives right now. It does boil down to electric heat in one way or another. :geek:


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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:39 am 
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A whole different riding experience. . .. 8)



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 Post subject: Re: It's Electric!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:13 am 
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These electric race bikes need a noise generator so the riders know when they are being over taken.

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